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Hey there, dear listener. A quick note about the episode you're about to hear. Multiple times, I reference Falcon and the Winter Soldier as having eight episodes, and I assert that we are at the midway point. Actually,
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there's just six episodes. We're two thirds of the way in. I apologize for the mistake. I I thought there was gonna be more than we're gonna get. The other thing that I do repeatedly in this episode is I refer to John Walker's sidekick
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as Death Star,
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which, you know, is a Star Wars thing.
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In actuality, the character's name is Battlestar.
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For whatever reason, I had Death Star on my mind, and I just kept saying it over and over again.
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Please forgive, the mistake, and enjoy the rest of the episode. Dramas, please.
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Yeah.
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This is Life
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a Twist of Lemon.
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Okay, John. This is an unusual episode of Life with a Twist of Lemon. I am Stan Lemon. You are?
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John Colmire.
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Alright. And normally,
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we talk about
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life, stuff,
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being friends.
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Occasionally, we talk about Marvel. But lately,
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we have been pushing Marvel
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topics to the post credit scene, just like a good Marvel movie. Right? You wait until after the credits roll, and you find out some little nugget about the future. And we've been doing this, so that you don't think this is just another Marvel podcast. However,
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however,
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we just finished
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Falcon and the Winter Soldier episode number four,
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and I thought it would be appropriate to just talk about it. Now, we are not recording this on our usual Tuesday. We're actually recording this literally on Friday. I have I've already made dinner. I've served my kids a homemade pizza as I do every single Friday. You've watched the episode. I've watched the episode. We've even texted a little bit about it, and I thought the moment was right. So are you ready, John? I'm
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ready.
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Alright. First off, this show is not
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really your favorite. Let's let's just be blunt about it. Right? Correct. Now,
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you did like WandaVision.
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Yeah? I did. And you've you've liked other, like, non canonical MCU
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TV shows such as Oh, I loved the Netflix and
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CU
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TV shows, Marvel TV shows, I guess. And you like you like Agents of Shield as well. Right? I did. I haven't I need to go back and catch up to wherever I was.
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Okay. So
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I don't think the problem is the MCU on TV. We And know the problem is an MCU because you like
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Marvel movies. Right? I mean Correct. We've talked about this, I think, at nausea. Is there any Marvel movie that you don't like?
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I don't think there are any that I do not like.
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Possibly
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Guardians two,
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but
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I have to watch it again. How many times have you actually seen Guardians two? I think only once straight through.
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Okay. Yeah. It's definitely worth the second watching. I maybe that's an episode in of itself. Right? Just to like, how does John Colmire feel about Guardians two after the second watch? Nonetheless,
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when it comes to Disney plus
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TV shows,
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to say that you've not been
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largely impressed, I think might be fair. Is that is that accurate? Well, what are the ones that we've watched? We watched
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Mandalorian.
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Seasons one and season two, both of which you did not like. Right?
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There were really two seasons of Mandalorian?
SPEAKER_0 [00:03:38]
Yes, John. There were two here and there.
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Wait. It's called the pandemic, buddy. I will say that I liked Mandalorian
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more than I have liked
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Falcon and the Winter Soldier.
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Okay, man. Now, you are not a Captain America fan. Correct? No. Not especially. What
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principally, what is your problem with Captain America?
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I just think he is kind of a boring character that there's no real depth to. He's a guy out of time who's like the
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embodiment
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of
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nineteen fifties American values.
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Okay.
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But
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he's not out of time for his premiere. Right? Like, you don't like the original Captain America movie, and he is mostly
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time contextual for that. Right. So I just
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the character doesn't intrigue me. I don't think that the character uses
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the fact that he's
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a superhero
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in a fantasy
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pseudo real world to magnify anything
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that's human,
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that's common amongst humans.
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So,
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I mean, do you would you say he's just, like,
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there?
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Like, he's present? He's not he's not anything beyond normal except the fact that he's got this serum, and that doesn't really impact his character? Is that, like, a fair representation of what you're saying there?
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Yeah. I guess so. I mean, he gets he gets more interesting in the Avengers movies
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and with Civil War where he's, like,
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where push comes to shove
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with what he stands for. So that's interesting, but I don't think he's all that interesting otherwise.
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So if you recall back from the the first movie, right, there's the German doctor Yep. Who creates the serum and injects it with him. And he and he basically has this I'm I'm not gonna do it justice. Dan Chaz is gonna freak out. I can hear him yelling
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at the speaker right now. But he does this monologue in which he talks about how the serum doesn't
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make someone better. It amplifies what's already there. Right. Right? And that's why Red Skull became more evil, and why he believes in Steve Rogers. Because Steve Rogers is just a good guy. Right? Like, doesn't have some crazy
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backstory like like Batman or, you know, stick in the MCU Moon Knight. Right? Like, he is just your average guy. Now, he's a bit of a wuss. He's a little puny,
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but he's just a decent human being. Right. Right? And so, I I think the premise of, like, that monologue, this purpose it serves is, like, this guy's gonna get bulk and ripped.
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But that decency, that, like, just
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nice guy, nothing special, like, it's gonna amplify that. Right? And I think
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I think that's part of the design. So when when I hear you tell me, like, there's no depth there, I I actually think that that's
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that's okay. Like, that's what Steve Rogers is supposed to be. And I think for for me, right,
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as just an average guy, I like the fact that the only thing that's been amplified is his decency, you know? Sure. It's not like he's he's not some kind of
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dude on a mission when he gets injected with the the super serum. He wants to go fight in the war. I don't know that we know that it's because he wants to be a hero so much as that he just wants to do the right thing that everybody else is doing. Right. Right?
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Yeah. So I
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guess contrast that with
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really
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Frodo and Sam and the hobbits.
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So there is nothing
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spectacular about hobbits. They're enjoyers of life and all things beautiful.
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And then they go on this giant quest to vanquish evil,
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which I don't think he get to the same depth
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with Captain America, partially because he's overshadowed by Iron Man.
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That that's fair. I don't know that even within his character,
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he would go on a quest
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to vanquish evil. I think I think he would just find himself in a situation where there's no other option
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but to battle evil. Right? Like, I don't think he goes and seeks out Thanos. Right. In fact, really, when you look at Infinity War,
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he is not there seeking out Thanos in the same way that the Hulk did, that Doctor Strange did, that Iron Man did. In fact, he just happens to be there to protect his friend,
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and it snowballs on him. Right? And that's kinda that's kinda, I think, his world. Interesting. So
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we've got we've got Winter Soldier, which is the second installment. And I I thought you kinda like this movie. Did you not?
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I liked Winter Soldier
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better. I like it more now than I did as they were coming out, and that's why I was first working my way through the MCU.
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So Winter Soldier's this interesting twist on him, because he's in present day. We've already I think we've already had Avengers,
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right, where they've all come together at this point. Yeah. They have. Yeah.
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Sequencing is is always tough after a couple glasses of wine, but here I am.
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So
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the
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the story though revolves around him facing the fact that this institution that he is maybe
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reluctantly part of, being S. L. D, has completely become corrupt. And then he sees his friend, right, Bucky,
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and Bucky is an evil character.
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And he then tries to to balance these two worlds of of, like, being a superhero.
SPEAKER_0 [00:08:57]
Right? While literally,
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Shield is crumbling around him, and also protecting his friend, Bucky. And I think that's the first time we get actually like this this internal moral dilemma for Steve. But I again, like, I don't think there's anything
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specifically heroic, and there's nothing really in that movie that that gives us even the slightest bit of pleasure
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in him saving Bucky. Right? Even when even when he's saving Bucky, Bucky is a straight out villain. Yep. You know?
SPEAKER_0 [00:09:27]
We get more we get more Avengers. I like, I don't even know that he's really that big of a deal in Ultron, to be honest with you. Like, when I when I reflect on his character, he's got some funny lines at the beginning.
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Right? Like,
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language, please. Right. And then then the whole
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Steve said a bad language word. Think Maria Hill teases later. But but the the only other, I think, really significant part is this moment in which it almost looks like he's going to wield Thor's hammer. Yep.
SPEAKER_0 [00:09:59]
Right? But he doesn't, because he's not gonna do that until Endgame.
SPEAKER_0 [00:10:03]
Then we get to Civil War, which is, I think, the premise for the show that you don't like, and that's really where I wanna go from here.
SPEAKER_1 [00:10:09]
Which So I also need to go watch Civil War again, but I remember liking it.
SPEAKER_0 [00:10:14]
It's it's a fantastic movie. If you take out Infinity War and Endgame, which I I don't even separate when I review Right. Marvel movies. Right? Like, they're they're so intrinsically coupled.
SPEAKER_0 [00:10:24]
If you take those out, it is my favorite Marvel movie. Because I think you get a lot of Steve Rogers. I think you get a lot of Bucky Barnes.
SPEAKER_0 [00:10:31]
You get a non hokey Zmo, which is one of my problems with the current TV show. Right?
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And then you get this this dilemma,
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this this, like, fight between Iron Man and Captain America. And and quite honestly, Captain America shows
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some bad choices in not sharing with Steve or not sharing with Tony rather, everything that he knows. Right. You know?
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Now Steve is nowhere in this TV show, but we get his lackeys,
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Falcon
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and the Winter Soldier, aka the White Wolf, aka Bucky Barnes.
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And
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you sent I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna pull up I'm gonna pull up my
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text messages,
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so I can read exactly
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what you
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said. If I if I quote you and use the s word, will we lose our clean rating on the podcast? I don't believe so.
SPEAKER_0 [00:11:21]
Okay. Alright. Man. Alright.
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You said
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the prologue scene was good.
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Freehand camera work. This is going to make me dizzy. It's about time someone kicked US agent's butt. Yeah. I quit.
SPEAKER_0 [00:11:34]
Yep. Show sucks. That was the s word. So there you go.
SPEAKER_0 [00:11:39]
So you quit. The show sucks. Tell me why, John. I don't know. So it's
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it's like an action movie that doesn't go anywhere.
SPEAKER_1 [00:11:51]
I don't like Zemo at all in the show.
SPEAKER_1 [00:11:55]
And let's see. So the prologue scene was cool because, like, there's this there's this great content
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around Bucky that they just hint at and then, like, never
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go all the way and commit with it.
SPEAKER_0 [00:12:10]
Okay. Hold on. What what content do you mean specifically? So prologue is basically
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going back to
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when
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Bucky is in Wakanda and basically being cured of the programming
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that he was programmed into to become the winter soldier.
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And and so we know that he was cured, but we don't know how. We don't know the process. And I think the only other scene we really had that teases this out in the MCU
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is is when king T'Challa
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in Infinity War says we gotta go get the white wolf. Right? That's when we first learned his name. And they go, and they find him at, like, he's, I don't know, herding goats or something. Right? Because that's how you use the winter soldier.
SPEAKER_0 [00:12:49]
He doesn't have an arm at that point.
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Supposedly, he's been on ice up until some, like, point in that time, because that's how he ends in civil war. Right? The post credit scene is then putting him in some kind of a cryo freeze. Right.
SPEAKER_0 [00:13:01]
So so I agree with you. Right? This is this is interesting. We get a little tease of the Wakanda mix at the end of episode three. Right? Because he's picking up these little probes. Yep. And he spots
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somebody that he knows from Wakanda. I I can never remember the name. Ayle? But it's it's like the Ayle? The key
SPEAKER_0 [00:13:17]
what? Wait. What are we talking about? The king the king's guard. Right. Her name like a y o. I don't know how to pronounce it. Oh, that may maybe that may be. I was thinking of the actual name of that group of individuals. Oh, yeah.
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You know, because and that'll that'll be relevant in a little bit. But
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I I agree with you. I thought it was like, it was a good prologue. Right? But, like, what what do you do with it after that? They did nothing.
SPEAKER_0 [00:13:43]
I mean, it it played into a scene later on. Like, basically, he buys eight more hours before they go and capture Zemo again, which Yeah. But so here's the thing though. The what what that scene buys is a there's a relationship that exists to that character. Yep. The act the actual, like, fixing of his cyborg brain and and, you know, the all the codes that trigger the Winter Soldier, that that actually doesn't buy anything later in. No. Right? Like Right.
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I think that's the problem with the prologue is that there's
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there's a lot going on there and They just throw it away, which has kind of been a theme with this whole show. You
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get some of that Well with the initial Bucky
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stuff where he's like fighting with his past here that
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goes away.
SPEAKER_0 [00:14:32]
So It it does it does go away, but it appears in the prologue too though. Yeah. You know? Because you see you see Bucky completely torn, excuse me, and conflicted and tearing up and and just this like real emotional winter soldier. Right.
SPEAKER_0 [00:14:45]
I I know that, like was it the first episode you thought most of that was thrown away because Does Anthony Mackie's character, the Falcon. Right? Like, his whole family background and story and all of that.
SPEAKER_1 [00:14:55]
Right? So that yeah. That was
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they ignored that for what?
SPEAKER_1 [00:15:00]
The next two episodes?
SPEAKER_0 [00:15:02]
They they did, but it came back this episode. Yeah. Right? Like, there was a connection. There was a reason why we had to know that the Falcon's sister was one, very important, and two, also completely disenfranchised with the US government and, like, all that comprises of it, as well as US Asia. K. Right?
SPEAKER_0 [00:15:19]
So I
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I bring that up because I keep thinking to myself, like, you know, we're only halfway through this show. Maybe
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maybe they are giving us nuggets, and it's gonna just, you know, kinda steamroll. And I and I know you really liked WandaVision.
SPEAKER_0 [00:15:32]
But truth be told, right, those first three episodes provided a lot of contextual information
SPEAKER_0 [00:15:38]
that would would be very applicable later, but wasn't super
SPEAKER_0 [00:15:42]
significant in the moment. Now, the thing that was different about WandaVision is that those were good episodes by themselves without the fact that they were setting up a whole ton of context later on. Yep. I think that's where this one was. Yeah. With within the episode, the writing was good with WandaVision.
SPEAKER_1 [00:15:55]
Maybe with the exception of episode
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four.
SPEAKER_0 [00:15:59]
Yeah. I know you don't like four. I love four.
SPEAKER_0 [00:16:01]
We'll we'll agree to disagree, sir.
SPEAKER_1 [00:16:05]
But,
SPEAKER_1 [00:16:07]
like, Falcon and the Winter Soldier,
SPEAKER_1 [00:16:09]
within the episode,
SPEAKER_1 [00:16:10]
the writing is
SPEAKER_1 [00:16:12]
borderline awful,
SPEAKER_1 [00:16:14]
because it's all over the place and, like,
SPEAKER_1 [00:16:19]
the
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dialogue
SPEAKER_1 [00:16:21]
is hit or miss. So, like, when Bucky and Sam are first together in episode
SPEAKER_1 [00:16:27]
two.
SPEAKER_1 [00:16:28]
Was it episode two when they started off with that banter? Yeah. So that was on point,
SPEAKER_1 [00:16:33]
but now they just have
SPEAKER_1 [00:16:36]
really bad dialogue whenever they're together, and they, I don't think the actors have anything to do with it.
SPEAKER_0 [00:16:42]
It's yeah. It's not well hashed out. It does seem like a writing problem. I don't think though that the dialogue between those two is my problem with the show at this point. I will say that I think I have a problem with Zemo's dialogue. Yeah. And and I'm I'm conflicted on this, because I think the Zemo that we see in Falcon and the Winter Soldier is a better representation
SPEAKER_0 [00:17:02]
of Zemo from the comics
SPEAKER_0 [00:17:04]
than the Zemo we get in Civil War. Interesting. However,
SPEAKER_0 [00:17:08]
the Zemo that we're getting right now kinda stinks because we know about the Zemo from Civil War. Right? Interesting.
SPEAKER_0 [00:17:14]
I like, I mean,
SPEAKER_0 [00:17:17]
do you agree this Zemo is problematic because of Civil War? If you take Civil War out of the picture, it's maybe less egregious?
SPEAKER_1 [00:17:26]
Maybe, but it just
SPEAKER_1 [00:17:30]
he's not a strong character
SPEAKER_1 [00:17:32]
either way.
SPEAKER_0 [00:17:34]
Well, he's he's supposed to be
SPEAKER_0 [00:17:36]
a
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conniving,
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clever,
SPEAKER_0 [00:17:40]
evil, but not, like I mean, think about this. Right? The whole the whole reason
SPEAKER_0 [00:17:44]
Zemo is there is because his his singular purpose
SPEAKER_0 [00:17:48]
is to eliminate the verse, the whole universe
SPEAKER_0 [00:17:51]
of the super Yep.
SPEAKER_0 [00:17:54]
Right? Okay. So so he is never going to be this strong,
SPEAKER_0 [00:17:59]
like, bold character,
SPEAKER_1 [00:18:01]
because that's the thing that he hates. Yeah. I I not not strong as in, like, strength character, but strength in the
SPEAKER_1 [00:18:09]
character creation
SPEAKER_1 [00:18:11]
or character
SPEAKER_1 [00:18:13]
I don't know how you play it out. I don't know. I just don't
SPEAKER_1 [00:18:17]
like, he's there,
SPEAKER_1 [00:18:18]
and he
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gets rid of some serum.
SPEAKER_1 [00:18:22]
And
SPEAKER_1 [00:18:23]
he's conniving, but not like Loki's conniving or
SPEAKER_0 [00:18:27]
Yeah. He his conniving is on a different level. Right? Like like, Loki is the god of mischief, and this is this is a guy who he's puny. Right? He is he's going to be a weak personality.
SPEAKER_0 [00:18:39]
Because if he's not weak,
SPEAKER_0 [00:18:40]
then the the contrast with the super serum is is not gonna exist. And I I I really think, like, you gotta look at him through that lens. Right? Interesting. So he's he's clever. So when you see him in Civil War, like, he's extremely
SPEAKER_0 [00:18:53]
clever.
SPEAKER_0 [00:18:54]
And he does these things that you don't expect. Right? So so the whole movie of Civil War, if you can rewind to the first time that you watched it, your expectation was that he was going to use the super soldiers
SPEAKER_0 [00:19:05]
against the Avengers. Right? Like, everybody thinks when they get into that frost laden missile base, that that's what's gonna happen. Right. You know? That he's gonna turn them, and then he surprises all of us. Just like in this episode, when he finally encounters the serum,
SPEAKER_0 [00:19:19]
I think everybody wants to think in that moment that he is going to inject himself, or that he's gonna take it and run away and go make his own super soldiers. But no.
SPEAKER_0 [00:19:27]
He starts stomping on them. He starts breaking them. And it's it's like the the inexplicable
SPEAKER_0 [00:19:32]
thing
SPEAKER_0 [00:19:33]
for a villain in that moment to do. Because we know, right, that hydra in its purity wants this serum to build the ultimate weapon. Right. But he's he's not straight up hydra. He's not straight up hydra at all.
SPEAKER_1 [00:19:45]
Yeah.
SPEAKER_1 [00:19:47]
I think I agree with everything you said. I still don't think it plays out
SPEAKER_1 [00:19:51]
as much as you want it to on screen without
SPEAKER_0 [00:19:54]
background knowledge of Comic Zemo or anything like that. Yeah. That that could be. That could be. I I do think
SPEAKER_0 [00:20:01]
there's a there's a hokiness. There's like a
SPEAKER_1 [00:20:04]
I don't know if it's an acting problem or if it's
SPEAKER_0 [00:20:08]
I don't know. I think it's a writing problem. I don't think it's an acting problem. Because you go back to Civil War. Right? Like, he's he's a legit character in Civil War. He he's got an awesome presence on screen. So I think what happened is they tried to bring in a little bit more of the comics into this TV show, and what you got was writers
SPEAKER_0 [00:20:24]
who are trying to play the, like, specific attributes of comic book Zemo,
SPEAKER_0 [00:20:28]
and just don't know how to do it. Right? Because they probably don't have enough comic book Zemo soaked up. And so, you get him talking about, like, a couple episodes back, right, very flippantly about being a baron, right, and having all those money. Right. And it's just, like, that doesn't it doesn't play well. It doesn't it lands flat. Yep. You know?
SPEAKER_0 [00:20:44]
Another character I think that lands really flat in this show, and we she's actually not in this episode,
SPEAKER_0 [00:20:50]
is Sharon Carter. I I She's In the episode.
SPEAKER_0 [00:20:54]
For what purpose this phone call. And she like pings
SPEAKER_1 [00:21:00]
Oh, I think it was US agent was and calls out when he's
SPEAKER_0 [00:21:05]
When he's showing up. Yeah.
SPEAKER_0 [00:21:07]
There's this weird presence that she has in the episode, and I I think my suspicion at this point is that she is probably the power broker. I think they've set that up. It's almost obvious at this point Yeah. That she must be the power broker. So if she's not, I'm gonna be really truly surprised.
SPEAKER_0 [00:21:20]
She's gone full bad. Like, she's villain at this point is is what we can tell. It seems that she wanted the serum probably for herself or whatever. I don't know. I mean, I'm not actually not very very familiar with her in the comics. But
SPEAKER_0 [00:21:33]
suffice to say, like,
SPEAKER_0 [00:21:35]
I I think they have done a poor job of writing the transition.
SPEAKER_0 [00:21:40]
And I I don't
SPEAKER_0 [00:21:41]
her
SPEAKER_0 [00:21:44]
level of cooperation with these guys
SPEAKER_0 [00:21:47]
should seem more sinister than it is.
SPEAKER_0 [00:21:50]
You know, I I just think they did a I just think they did a poor job with their character. Yep.
SPEAKER_0 [00:21:55]
Alright. What did you think of
SPEAKER_0 [00:21:57]
what was his name? Death Star and John Walker, aka US Asian, aka the new Captain America in this episode?
SPEAKER_1 [00:22:06]
So it kinda picks up where it left off. So there's some continuity there with the last episode.
SPEAKER_1 [00:22:13]
But,
SPEAKER_1 [00:22:14]
yeah, they're just
SPEAKER_1 [00:22:15]
on their
SPEAKER_1 [00:22:17]
high power ride
SPEAKER_1 [00:22:20]
when we kick it off.
SPEAKER_1 [00:22:22]
Like, they're loving this. They're loving that,
SPEAKER_1 [00:22:25]
the attention, and all of that.
SPEAKER_0 [00:22:28]
They are. I think, you know, the the first US agent we get as he's being given the mantle,
SPEAKER_0 [00:22:34]
you are led to want to love this character. Right? Yeah. He seems like a respectable person
SPEAKER_0 [00:22:42]
who might just deserve the mantle of Captain America. Meanwhile,
SPEAKER_0 [00:22:46]
inexplicably,
SPEAKER_0 [00:22:47]
Bucky and Falcon don't like this guy from the word go. Right? Like, they don't even give him a chance. Yeah. Which I think might have actually hurt
SPEAKER_1 [00:22:55]
the audience falling in love with the US agent character.
SPEAKER_0 [00:22:59]
I oh, I totally agree. I totally agree. I think you have to give him a shot before he blows it. Because what we find out in this episode, which I think was actually really significant. Right? There's this conversation between US Agent and Deathstroke
SPEAKER_0 [00:23:11]
about what the serum will do, like, will you take it? You know? And Zemo actually asks Falcon the exact same thing. Would you take the the serum? And Falcon, without hesitation, says no. Later on, we see Deathstroke
SPEAKER_0 [00:23:22]
asking US agent John Walker
SPEAKER_0 [00:23:25]
exactly that question,
SPEAKER_0 [00:23:27]
and or no. No. It's the other way around. I'm sorry. John Walker asks Deathstroke or Death Star. He's like, duh. There's so many there's so many comic book characters that begin their names with death.
SPEAKER_0 [00:23:37]
Death Star,
SPEAKER_0 [00:23:38]
And
SPEAKER_0 [00:23:39]
he says, yeah, absolutely. I told him would do it. Yep. Right? Without hesitation. Right. And we we know at this moment that John Walker has picked up a vial
SPEAKER_0 [00:23:46]
of the serum and has put it in his pocket. We don't we don't actually see him inject it, which I think was a misstep, honestly. I think we needed to see him take it. Right.
SPEAKER_0 [00:23:57]
But then, you know, we find out they they talk about how it amplifies whatever's in you. You're a three star gold medal soldier. Like, they have this whole conversation. Right? And what we find out is that, actually,
SPEAKER_0 [00:24:08]
he's kind of a jerk wad, to be totally honest. So that all happens after
SPEAKER_1 [00:24:14]
the showdown with the
SPEAKER_1 [00:24:17]
Wakandan war royal guard. I can't remember the name. Daniel Sanchez is screaming at us right now.
SPEAKER_0 [00:24:23]
Yeah. He totally is.
SPEAKER_0 [00:24:24]
Yeah. There's actually there's actually two fight scenes that happen
SPEAKER_0 [00:24:28]
that that are worth
SPEAKER_0 [00:24:30]
maybe maybe going a little deeper in. Right? Like, the first one is the Wakanda one, which I I don't know. What what do you think the purpose of that fight was?
SPEAKER_1 [00:24:42]
That's a good question. So I think that it was multiple purposes depending on which character you're looking at.
SPEAKER_1 [00:24:48]
Go on. So from the Wakandan perspective,
SPEAKER_1 [00:24:53]
you're dealing with at least two
SPEAKER_1 [00:24:56]
elements of vibranium.
SPEAKER_1 [00:24:59]
Right?
SPEAKER_1 [00:25:00]
Yeah. The shield Both the shield and bucky's arm. Yeah. So
SPEAKER_0 [00:25:04]
Oh, interesting.
SPEAKER_0 [00:25:06]
Because I was gonna say the spears. I'm
SPEAKER_0 [00:25:09]
gonna go with the you saw.
SPEAKER_1 [00:25:12]
Was the bigger prop, I think. So
SPEAKER_1 [00:25:14]
yeah. I mean, you got the spears there too, but that kinda goes with the royal guard. So they
SPEAKER_1 [00:25:20]
still kind of like,
SPEAKER_1 [00:25:22]
that's Wakanda's. Right?
SPEAKER_1 [00:25:25]
So that goes back to the shield.
SPEAKER_1 [00:25:27]
Okay.
SPEAKER_1 [00:25:28]
Whose is the shield? Is it the US government? Is it Sam's? Is it Wakanda's?
SPEAKER_1 [00:25:33]
So I think there was an element of that there.
SPEAKER_1 [00:25:37]
It was
SPEAKER_1 [00:25:39]
that Bucky still owes them
SPEAKER_1 [00:25:41]
a debt,
SPEAKER_1 [00:25:43]
which I think could play a bigger role if not in Falcon and Winter Soldier later on.
SPEAKER_0 [00:25:50]
Maybe Black Panther too, if we're lucky. Right?
SPEAKER_0 [00:25:53]
You get you gotta hope that they have Sebastian Stan lined up for Black Panther too. Yeah.
SPEAKER_1 [00:26:01]
From US agents perspective, his big takeaway is, wow. I just got demolished, and they aren't even super soldiers.
SPEAKER_0 [00:26:09]
Yep. You get that. He actually says that. Right? And you could see it in his face. I actually thought that was a pretty good piece of acting. Yep. The the expression, the moment, the emotion that he conveys there.
SPEAKER_1 [00:26:18]
And then at the very surface level, it's Wakanda and Zemo
SPEAKER_1 [00:26:23]
with the assassination
SPEAKER_1 [00:26:25]
of T'Challa and
SPEAKER_1 [00:26:28]
yeah.
SPEAKER_0 [00:26:29]
Yeah. So they they come, basically, to get Zemo because they know that Zemo has escaped. Yep. Zemo manages to sneak out. I I actually enjoyed the El Chapo El Chapo, however you say it, reference that Anthony Mackie's falcon tosses out of that. That was that was funny. It just maybe it was a little out of place, so, like, you know, not necessarily the right time to execute on humor.
SPEAKER_0 [00:26:50]
But this whole I think this whole fight
SPEAKER_0 [00:26:54]
shows
SPEAKER_0 [00:26:54]
that
SPEAKER_0 [00:26:55]
US agent one has zero regard for the Avengers in their history. Right. Right? Like, this this fight is to draw a line that he may wear the mandel of Captain America,
SPEAKER_0 [00:27:05]
but he is not an Avenger. Yep. It also
SPEAKER_0 [00:27:08]
showcases just how much of a hothead he is. We've gotten a little bit of a, like, a tease up to this point. But at this moment, straight up, unadulterated
SPEAKER_0 [00:27:16]
hothead.
SPEAKER_0 [00:27:18]
Yep.
SPEAKER_0 [00:27:19]
Now,
SPEAKER_0 [00:27:20]
we'll say,
SPEAKER_0 [00:27:21]
I am but by the way, I looked it up while we were talking here. It's the Dora Milej.
SPEAKER_0 [00:27:27]
I'm I'm probably not pronouncing that correctly, but that's that's the name of the the
SPEAKER_0 [00:27:32]
the guard that protects the king.
SPEAKER_0 [00:27:35]
In in Black Panther, we see his king T'Challa
SPEAKER_0 [00:27:38]
throughout Wakanda and and abroad. Right? Like, there's the the
SPEAKER_0 [00:27:42]
one soldier
SPEAKER_0 [00:27:44]
oh, man. What is her name? It's gonna it's gonna bother me here for a bit.
SPEAKER_0 [00:27:49]
It'll come to me later. Who follows T'Challa
SPEAKER_0 [00:27:52]
throughout Black Panther, but also then appears in Infinity War.
SPEAKER_0 [00:27:57]
But
SPEAKER_0 [00:27:58]
the
SPEAKER_0 [00:27:59]
I I was, like, a little disappointed that they didn't have Shuri. I thought this would have been a good place to, like, loop her in on this part of the MCU. Did that did that phase you at all? Like No.
SPEAKER_1 [00:28:10]
I don't know. It didn't seem
SPEAKER_1 [00:28:14]
it didn't seem like the right
SPEAKER_1 [00:28:16]
time, really. They mentioned her by name,
SPEAKER_1 [00:28:20]
but, like, this isn't something she would go on. She's the one hanging back with the tech and supporting people.
SPEAKER_0 [00:28:26]
Yeah.
SPEAKER_0 [00:28:27]
So I'm thinking of I I'm not gonna say her name right either. Okoye,
SPEAKER_0 [00:28:32]
o k o y e, who is that guard that is always by T'Challa.
SPEAKER_0 [00:28:36]
That's who I would have loved to have seen show up at the door in Malege.
SPEAKER_0 [00:28:41]
I could have also
SPEAKER_0 [00:28:42]
been fine seeing Nakia. That would've been that would be cool for me. So Yep. I just I wanted, like, some continuity from the characters that we know Wakanda, because we do get quite a bit, you know, truth be told. Yeah. I wasn't expecting that tie in here.
SPEAKER_1 [00:28:56]
I should have with Bucky, but I didn't. Yeah.
SPEAKER_0 [00:28:59]
I I think I think we should've. I I'm with you. Like, I wasn't
SPEAKER_0 [00:29:04]
last episode, I knew they were gonna do something. Right. I wasn't sure that we were gonna have a full on on fight scene. Alright.
SPEAKER_0 [00:29:10]
That's the door of Malege.
SPEAKER_0 [00:29:11]
That whole fight, I think, is there to put the pressure on John Walker to make a bad decision to take the serum. Yep.
SPEAKER_0 [00:29:20]
Now the final the final fight, there's
SPEAKER_0 [00:29:22]
this whole thing that happens with the Falcon
SPEAKER_0 [00:29:25]
and
SPEAKER_0 [00:29:27]
oh my gosh. What is her name? The
SPEAKER_1 [00:29:30]
I had to look this up too.
SPEAKER_0 [00:29:33]
Do do you have it? No. I don't. Not on me. Oh
SPEAKER_1 [00:29:36]
my gosh. Starts with an m.
SPEAKER_0 [00:29:38]
It does.
SPEAKER_0 [00:29:40]
What is her name?
SPEAKER_0 [00:29:41]
Carly
SPEAKER_0 [00:29:42]
Morgenthal. Morgenthal. Right? Yeah. Morgenthal. Who is who's again, like I had mentioned last time, she's from solo. That's where we've seen her before. But played by Erin Kellyman, who I think does a pretty brilliant job. She has this two part negotiation
SPEAKER_0 [00:29:56]
with the Falcon over what she's doing. Right? And so we have this ideological discussion about whether or not it is okay
SPEAKER_0 [00:30:04]
to to basically,
SPEAKER_0 [00:30:06]
you know, bat down the man. Right? Because that's just like, this is all a thing around
SPEAKER_0 [00:30:11]
probably big government and big corporations.
SPEAKER_0 [00:30:14]
And and you the split in the road for Carly and Falcon
SPEAKER_0 [00:30:18]
is whether or not you can use violence to achieve an outcome. And Carly,
SPEAKER_0 [00:30:22]
right, like she plays into
SPEAKER_0 [00:30:24]
the notion that she's okay with violence, but she's just trying to talk herself out of it. And I I thought that was very not compelling. Like, did not sell that
SPEAKER_0 [00:30:32]
level of conflict in her So I will say
SPEAKER_1 [00:30:36]
that that dialogue specifically,
SPEAKER_1 [00:30:39]
the first
SPEAKER_1 [00:30:40]
negotiation with Sam,
SPEAKER_1 [00:30:43]
was written really well.
SPEAKER_1 [00:30:45]
I don't like the content of the dialogue,
SPEAKER_1 [00:30:48]
but the writing was was good there.
SPEAKER_0 [00:30:52]
I will give you that the writing was good. I don't think the acting in that dialogue was as strong as the writing for it. Especially on her part, I think. So Sam was in character,
SPEAKER_1 [00:31:03]
and
SPEAKER_1 [00:31:04]
that felt natural to me.
SPEAKER_0 [00:31:06]
So so Morgenthau,
SPEAKER_0 [00:31:07]
I think, until this point, really has been strong. That dialogue though, I think we get this
SPEAKER_0 [00:31:13]
I I don't know, like, poor execution on being tripped up or naivete, whatever you wanna call it.
SPEAKER_0 [00:31:20]
And I thought that was unfortunate. Now,
SPEAKER_0 [00:31:22]
that whole scene, right, John Walker breaks in,
SPEAKER_0 [00:31:27]
we find out well, there's there's two there's two battles. Right?
SPEAKER_1 [00:31:31]
Yeah.
SPEAKER_1 [00:31:32]
So this one And
SPEAKER_1 [00:31:35]
Yeah. He breaks in and, like, time's up and they're going after
SPEAKER_0 [00:31:40]
Right. Right. It's the subsequent
SPEAKER_0 [00:31:43]
battle.
SPEAKER_0 [00:31:43]
The really the one that the the episode ends on that I wanna spend some time on. Because at this point,
SPEAKER_0 [00:31:49]
John Walker is juiced. Yep. Right?
SPEAKER_0 [00:31:52]
He comes in like a bull in a china shop.
SPEAKER_0 [00:31:56]
There is a moment in time in which
SPEAKER_0 [00:31:59]
Carly Morgenthau and her peers are just
SPEAKER_0 [00:32:02]
watching.
SPEAKER_0 [00:32:03]
Right? Yep. Which seems weird to me. They're just watching this fight go down.
SPEAKER_0 [00:32:08]
And then, Death Star is violently
SPEAKER_0 [00:32:11]
thrown into a pillar and dies. Yep. Right?
SPEAKER_0 [00:32:16]
Which which is fine. I'm a little disappointed they're not gonna leverage more out of that character.
SPEAKER_1 [00:32:21]
I I don't like, it it That's another running theme is they have all of these characters that they just don't take
SPEAKER_1 [00:32:30]
to their potential.
SPEAKER_0 [00:32:32]
Yeah. Oh, no. Absolutely. Absolutely. And I I think this is one based on what I know about from the comics, I think this is one that they wasted, honestly, because I think there's a lot they could have done there. So who knows? Maybe somebody else will pick up the name. I don't know. We'll we'll see what happens. But suffice to say,
SPEAKER_0 [00:32:47]
enrages
SPEAKER_0 [00:32:48]
John Walker.
SPEAKER_0 [00:32:49]
Right? And so he at at this point, Morgenthau and her gang split,
SPEAKER_0 [00:32:54]
and you have Walker chasing them.
SPEAKER_0 [00:32:57]
And then,
SPEAKER_0 [00:32:59]
honestly, I
SPEAKER_0 [00:33:01]
could not pass and I know a lot about US Agent from the comics. I could not possibly have envisioned
SPEAKER_0 [00:33:07]
the closing scene of this show. Yep. Right?
SPEAKER_0 [00:33:10]
Did this catch you off guard?
SPEAKER_1 [00:33:14]
I would say no just because I'm so
SPEAKER_1 [00:33:19]
not invested in the show anymore.
SPEAKER_0 [00:33:22]
Okay. And and you've seen every season of Sons of Anarchy, so violence on TV is not really a thing for you. Right? True. Yeah.
SPEAKER_0 [00:33:29]
So I'm watching this with my kids because it's on Disney plus and that should be okay. Right? Right. And and to to just kinda illustrate what happens, John Walker
SPEAKER_0 [00:33:37]
corners this guy on
SPEAKER_0 [00:33:40]
a set of concrete stairs, and he takes the shield, the shield of Captain America,
SPEAKER_0 [00:33:45]
and he he kills this guy in raw
SPEAKER_0 [00:33:49]
anger. Yep. There's it's just pure rage. Bunch of people are sitting there watching. They got their cameras up because that's what you do and whatever year this is.
SPEAKER_0 [00:33:57]
And then
SPEAKER_0 [00:34:00]
Bucky
SPEAKER_0 [00:34:01]
and Falcon and even Morgenthau show up, and they're they're watching. They're witnessing all of this.
SPEAKER_0 [00:34:07]
I thought it was a
SPEAKER_0 [00:34:10]
a powerful ending to show the shield
SPEAKER_0 [00:34:13]
covered in Yeah. The whole yeah. The whole bottom of of it was was dripping in blood.
SPEAKER_0 [00:34:18]
So so here's here's my thing. Right?
SPEAKER_0 [00:34:21]
I
SPEAKER_0 [00:34:22]
actually like, the the violence was intense,
SPEAKER_0 [00:34:25]
over the top,
SPEAKER_0 [00:34:26]
unnecessary
SPEAKER_0 [00:34:28]
for a show on Disney plus. I think this is easily the most violent of moments I've seen in the MCU. I can't I can't like, I was trying to think of something equally as violent. Right.
SPEAKER_0 [00:34:40]
The closest I can come
SPEAKER_0 [00:34:42]
is the initiation fights in Black Panther. Those are pretty violent.
SPEAKER_0 [00:34:46]
I don't think they're vicious in the same way this is. Sure.
SPEAKER_0 [00:34:51]
And so so I that bothers me a little. I'm I'm worried about what Waters
SPEAKER_0 [00:34:57]
Marvel is testing,
SPEAKER_0 [00:34:59]
right, with their audience
SPEAKER_0 [00:35:00]
on this one.
SPEAKER_0 [00:35:02]
But
SPEAKER_0 [00:35:03]
setting aside that element,
SPEAKER_0 [00:35:05]
if my kids hadn't been there, my wife still would have cringed.
SPEAKER_0 [00:35:08]
But I think
SPEAKER_0 [00:35:10]
the emotional
SPEAKER_0 [00:35:11]
turmoil and the conflict of John Walker
SPEAKER_0 [00:35:15]
leading up that culminating moment, I think was actually pretty good writing in my opinion. You think so?
SPEAKER_1 [00:35:21]
I do. You don't like it? No. I thought it was I thought it was rushed. I think they could have brought that out more.
SPEAKER_1 [00:35:29]
And like,
SPEAKER_1 [00:35:31]
if you take a step back,
SPEAKER_1 [00:35:35]
in one way, this is
SPEAKER_1 [00:35:37]
exactly what you would expect to happen. Like, if you go back to Captain America, and there's all these great soldiers
SPEAKER_1 [00:35:44]
who
SPEAKER_1 [00:35:45]
don't make the cut for the super serum.
SPEAKER_1 [00:35:48]
And that's because
SPEAKER_1 [00:35:49]
they're good soldiers,
SPEAKER_1 [00:35:51]
and good soldiers
SPEAKER_1 [00:35:53]
kill the enemy. Right?
SPEAKER_0 [00:35:55]
Right. So Yeah. You're you're talking about the tryouts. Right? Right. Where and and I think I hadn't thought about that angle. That's an interesting contrast to this moment. Right? Like,
SPEAKER_0 [00:36:04]
was
SPEAKER_0 [00:36:05]
Wyatt Russell's character, US agent John Walker,
SPEAKER_0 [00:36:08]
in that original, like, was the persona in that group of guys that tried out for the original
SPEAKER_0 [00:36:15]
super soldier serum. Yep.
SPEAKER_0 [00:36:18]
I I don't know that the And Steve Rogers, wimpy Steve,
SPEAKER_1 [00:36:23]
was not a good soldier by any stretch of the imagination.
SPEAKER_0 [00:36:27]
Except he did jump on the Exactly. The hand greenery. Yeah. He
SPEAKER_0 [00:36:32]
was a defensive soldier, not a offensive soldier. Well, yeah. No. That's that's a great call. That's a great call. So
SPEAKER_0 [00:36:39]
John Walker,
SPEAKER_0 [00:36:40]
I I I I see what you mean about it being rushed, but I would say I think what was rushed was
SPEAKER_0 [00:36:45]
the emotional evolution
SPEAKER_0 [00:36:47]
that that has to happen to the moment in which when his friend dies, he loses total control. Right. Right? So again, like, we don't see him get injected with the serum. That's the part that I think was rushed. So we had this moment where he gets his butt kicked by the
SPEAKER_0 [00:37:01]
oh my gosh. I'm gonna mess up again. The Dora Milej.
SPEAKER_0 [00:37:05]
And and from that moment up until that last fight, we don't actually know, like, what the turmoil is that he goes through besides this one coffee shop scene. I think that was rushed.
SPEAKER_0 [00:37:14]
The actual closeout, I didn't feel like was rushed, but I but I understand where you're coming from. Yeah. I mean, it just so he seems,
SPEAKER_1 [00:37:21]
I don't know, maybe I have to go watch that fight scene again.
SPEAKER_1 [00:37:24]
But
SPEAKER_1 [00:37:26]
I don't know. It just seems like a big leap
SPEAKER_1 [00:37:29]
to do that and completely throw out the fact that he's
SPEAKER_1 [00:37:33]
doing this
SPEAKER_1 [00:37:35]
in
SPEAKER_1 [00:37:37]
the Captain America
SPEAKER_1 [00:37:38]
garb
SPEAKER_1 [00:37:40]
in front of all these civilians with camera phones.
SPEAKER_0 [00:37:44]
Yeah. That's that's fair. That's fair. I think there is a lot that has happened in his career as a soldier that they have withheld from us, and that that maybe
SPEAKER_0 [00:37:55]
is is causing his
SPEAKER_0 [00:37:57]
character to not be clear. Right? I think that's that's really what it is. It comes down to a clarity thing here.
SPEAKER_0 [00:38:03]
But, you know, the again, the rage, the rage that we see, all I can think of is Jax Teller. Like, this is Jax Teller from Sons of Anarchy just going full on out. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_0 [00:38:14]
And and the MCU
SPEAKER_0 [00:38:16]
has not had that before, not like this. Right? Like like Thanos is not he does not rage.
SPEAKER_0 [00:38:22]
He is not vicious. Nope. He is calculating. He is precise. And he is pure evil. But but in a prescriptive way that is really hard to wrap your head around. This this guy is downright scary. Yep. So
SPEAKER_0 [00:38:36]
alright. You're disappointed with the writing quality and the dialogue. Fair? And
SPEAKER_1 [00:38:41]
like the
SPEAKER_1 [00:38:42]
overall,
SPEAKER_1 [00:38:44]
I guess, I'll say cinematography,
SPEAKER_1 [00:38:47]
and
SPEAKER_1 [00:38:50]
that lacks continuity.
SPEAKER_1 [00:38:53]
They're trying really weird stuff.
SPEAKER_1 [00:38:57]
Lot of experimentation happening in terms of what they're doing for camera. This wasn't wasn't so much in the action sequence as it has been in
SPEAKER_1 [00:39:04]
previous episodes. This was all across the board. So they're on the street with Zemo and the camera shaking all around. They throw in some JJ Abrams lens flares later on.
SPEAKER_0 [00:39:19]
Like
SPEAKER_1 [00:39:20]
So somebody's having fun. That's for sure. Right. It is just I don't know. It it's like
SPEAKER_1 [00:39:26]
one episode that was directed by six different people.
SPEAKER_0 [00:39:30]
So Yeah. Well, and that very well could be depending on how it's shot. I mean, I think the thing I keep feeling like is I there's
SPEAKER_0 [00:39:38]
there's a story here that is being told that the audience doesn't know about. Right? And maybe we'll learn about it later. I had the same beef with the Wandavision, but I think, again, I think Wandavision,
SPEAKER_0 [00:39:48]
those episodes were written well enough that they stood
SPEAKER_1 [00:39:52]
fine on their own. Yeah. So that was also experimentation
SPEAKER_1 [00:39:58]
and kind of dangerous experimentation
SPEAKER_1 [00:40:00]
if you're going with something that's not quite a parody of old sitcoms,
SPEAKER_1 [00:40:06]
but is a nod back to them and done true to their
SPEAKER_1 [00:40:10]
spirit, I guess.
SPEAKER_1 [00:40:12]
So that was dangerous, and I think they pulled it off, which I think why I like those first three episodes first time viewing them more than needed.
SPEAKER_0 [00:40:19]
Yeah. Risky is the word I would use. But, yeah, I I think I think you're spot on there.
SPEAKER_0 [00:40:24]
So how did like, are you going to watch episode five? Because we're halfway through the season. I I'm pretty sure it's an eight eight episode run. Yeah. I don't Are you gonna watch episode five? I imagine I will watch episode five, but at this point, I'm not excited to go watch episode five.
SPEAKER_0 [00:40:39]
Yeah. It's funny. When we had Patrick on the podcast, he said that this was a risky endeavor. Right? Like, the the stakes were high to get this show right. And in hindsight, I think it was a good call for them to release WandaVision first. They were not originally gonna do that. Originally, they were going to do
SPEAKER_0 [00:40:58]
Falcon and the Winter Soldier, and I think I think it's proven out that that this one can be a dud, maybe Yeah. As long as Loki is strong.
SPEAKER_1 [00:41:07]
The the problem that I have I I can't imagine
SPEAKER_1 [00:41:10]
that Loki is not strong
SPEAKER_1 [00:41:12]
just
SPEAKER_1 [00:41:13]
with the actor and the character as he's grown so far.
SPEAKER_0 [00:41:18]
Well, hit Hiddleston can carry
SPEAKER_0 [00:41:21]
a multitude of sins along with him.
SPEAKER_0 [00:41:23]
If if you need any evidence to the fact, just go watch Thor Dark World. Right? Like Yes. Hiddleston
SPEAKER_0 [00:41:30]
can make a bad movie
SPEAKER_0 [00:41:32]
decent.
SPEAKER_1 [00:41:33]
Hiddleston is Loki. I don't know.
SPEAKER_0 [00:41:36]
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like, there's I don't know. And then Owen Wilson is in that, which I'm I'm really looking forward to Owen Wilson's introduction to the MCU. And I don't know if you've seen on Instagram any of the little
SPEAKER_0 [00:41:49]
videos they've done, the two of them joking about the show.
SPEAKER_0 [00:41:53]
But the dynamic that I've seen thus far
SPEAKER_0 [00:41:56]
makes me look forward to this. Yep. And and maybe that maybe that's the problem with Falcon and the Winter Soldier. Right? In Civil War, we get this dynamic between Falcon
SPEAKER_0 [00:42:05]
and Bucky
SPEAKER_0 [00:42:06]
that I don't think we have seen, except for a couple of nods.
SPEAKER_0 [00:42:11]
Right?
SPEAKER_0 [00:42:12]
And and I was expecting
SPEAKER_0 [00:42:14]
a
SPEAKER_0 [00:42:15]
different like, I I I thought that was gonna carry the whole show, and instead it's almost like an afterthought. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that comes back down to the writing.
SPEAKER_1 [00:42:24]
So, like, Bucky
SPEAKER_1 [00:42:26]
should be,
SPEAKER_1 [00:42:29]
like, really angry with him that he gave up the shield. Right?
SPEAKER_1 [00:42:33]
And,
SPEAKER_1 [00:42:34]
I don't see that.
SPEAKER_0 [00:42:36]
Well, he's been he's been frustrated but tolerant. Yeah. Right? Which I don't I don't know, man. I
SPEAKER_1 [00:42:43]
think the best one was
SPEAKER_1 [00:42:46]
was it episode two where they're on the truck fighting? I think it's gotta be episode two as the strong point of the series so far.
SPEAKER_0 [00:42:54]
I would agree with that. Because I think I think three is easily the weakest
SPEAKER_0 [00:42:58]
with number one after,
SPEAKER_0 [00:43:00]
and then I would probably say
SPEAKER_0 [00:43:02]
three is the the the the
SPEAKER_0 [00:43:05]
third worst
SPEAKER_0 [00:43:07]
or the second best. So if I'm ranking these, right, in terms of, like, quality,
SPEAKER_0 [00:43:11]
you you basically have two four three or it's two four one three is how I would play. Yeah. I'd probably agree. But, like, two is so far ahead of four that
SPEAKER_0 [00:43:21]
Yeah. It's it's a big gap. There's no doubt about it. I mean, two two is the only one that actually felt like we were watching MCU quality content. Right. Right?
SPEAKER_0 [00:43:29]
This one had glimpses of that, but not enough to to stitch it all together. And I still go back to
SPEAKER_1 [00:43:36]
who's the villain. Right? So that's the thing. So that was the
SPEAKER_1 [00:43:40]
during that first Sam and Morgenthal
SPEAKER_1 [00:43:44]
kind of meeting.
SPEAKER_1 [00:43:47]
I think the writing is good
SPEAKER_1 [00:43:49]
but it's like they're dancing around
SPEAKER_1 [00:43:53]
this gray area,
SPEAKER_1 [00:43:54]
and there is no good and there's no evil, which really, really bugs
SPEAKER_1 [00:43:59]
my worldview.
SPEAKER_0 [00:44:01]
Sure. But I, like, I think so I understand what you're saying. I do think there there's like a there's a bad guy in this in this show. Right? It's the problem is it's probably not just one at this point, and we don't know who it is. Yep. And I look I look back at the Marvel movies that have struggled to have clear
SPEAKER_0 [00:44:18]
villains.
SPEAKER_0 [00:44:20]
Guardians of the Galaxy two,
SPEAKER_0 [00:44:22]
Ant Man and the Wasp. Yep. Right? Those are the two one where it's like, who's who's the bad who's the villain?
SPEAKER_0 [00:44:27]
Guardians of the Galaxy two has a I think, clear villain, but it's still
SPEAKER_0 [00:44:31]
it's it's less about the villain and it's more about the the, like, identity struggle, I think. Right. And I think, at this point,
SPEAKER_0 [00:44:39]
the power broker, whoever that is, Sharon Carter, is probably the main villain,
SPEAKER_0 [00:44:44]
but we've had zero screen time. We're halfway through the show. We had zero screen time of her as the villain. Right. Carly Carly Morgenthau is gonna be a pawn. Yeah. Absolutely. I think that's crystal clear. Right? US agent is also probably gonna be a pawn.
SPEAKER_0 [00:44:59]
And so,
SPEAKER_0 [00:45:00]
like,
SPEAKER_0 [00:45:01]
how do you how do you make it through half half of the season without a clear villain? I I just don't know that that plays up to
SPEAKER_0 [00:45:07]
what they're hoping to accomplish here. Yeah.
SPEAKER_1 [00:45:10]
I know.
SPEAKER_0 [00:45:12]
Well, John, I so the reason that I wanted to record this episode, even though we decided not to do Marvel episode to episode, is I think I don't wanna revisit this on at least on air until we have seen the whole show. If you watch the whole show, I have zero confidence that you will have seen the next episode by the time that we record again. So I figured, well, let's just get this out in the air. You don't like the show, and No. Honestly, John, I'm okay with that. I'm I'm
SPEAKER_0 [00:45:35]
I'm indifferent right now. I I I haven't I haven't written it off because I have this hope because I love Captain America. Yeah. You didn't love Captain America, and so here we are.
SPEAKER_1 [00:45:44]
But I don't know. There's just
SPEAKER_1 [00:45:47]
I'm just disappointed.
SPEAKER_1 [00:45:48]
Like, even if just the Sam and Bucky dynamic
SPEAKER_1 [00:45:52]
was out of this world,
SPEAKER_1 [00:45:54]
that would carry the show. But it's not. It would. It would.
SPEAKER_0 [00:45:58]
Yeah.
SPEAKER_0 [00:45:59]
You know,
SPEAKER_0 [00:46:00]
it makes you wonder if the writers
SPEAKER_0 [00:46:04]
that are doing these episodes
SPEAKER_0 [00:46:06]
have any connection to the writers from Civil War. Right. You know, or is what happened in Civil War just was it that organic that the Russo brothers captured it and they rolled with it? And and the lack of organicness
SPEAKER_0 [00:46:17]
does not translate to an eight episode TV show run? I I don't know. Right. You know?
SPEAKER_0 [00:46:23]
I will say I'm disappointed.
SPEAKER_0 [00:46:26]
I'm I'm a little bummed
SPEAKER_0 [00:46:27]
by this show. I think it could have been better at especially here we are at the halfway point.
SPEAKER_0 [00:46:33]
I felt better on episode four of WandaVision
SPEAKER_0 [00:46:37]
than I do now by orders of magnitude. Yeah.
SPEAKER_1 [00:46:41]
Overall, the quality of WandaVision was better.
SPEAKER_1 [00:46:44]
The acting, the writing, everything.
SPEAKER_0 [00:46:48]
Yep.
SPEAKER_0 [00:46:49]
Well, John
SPEAKER_1 [00:46:51]
Is this a bonus round or is this next week's episode?
SPEAKER_0 [00:46:54]
This is next week's episode, man. I wanna get this listen, this is real and raw,
SPEAKER_0 [00:46:58]
like, very timely. We're we're just we're hashing it out in real time here, buddy. Alright. So Sounds good. And there'll be there'll be no Marvel for a little bit because we're we're in mourning We're in mourning until at Blackwood. I what I until Blackwood. I think this could be Marvel's first stud. Yeah.
SPEAKER_0 [00:47:15]
I said I said it here. We'll see talk to me after episode eight. I wonder what Patrick thinks. Marvel's first stud. Patrick loves all things.
SPEAKER_0 [00:47:21]
He does. I mean, even liked Aquaman for crying out loud. He loves Aquaman.
SPEAKER_0 [00:47:26]
Oh my god. Such a bad movie. Sorry, Patty. I love you.
SPEAKER_0 [00:47:31]
On n o John, I think that is enough Marvel
SPEAKER_0 [00:47:35]
for one week, maybe for one show. We'll see. There you go. Alright.
SPEAKER_0 [00:47:40]
This is Stan Lemon, reminding you to help control the spread of COVID nineteen. Wash your hands, wear a mask, and get a vaccine.