SPEAKER_0 [00:00:00]
Dramas, please.
SPEAKER_0 [00:00:13]
Yeah.
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This is life
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with a twist of lemon.
SPEAKER_0 [00:00:24]
So so, John, today is Monterey upgrade day. Have you upgraded?
SPEAKER_1 [00:00:28]
I have not.
SPEAKER_0 [00:00:29]
Okay. This will drop a couple days after
SPEAKER_0 [00:00:32]
Monterey has been released, but today is the day. You've been waiting for Monterey for quite a bit. Like, you were actually looking forward to this if I recall. I am. So I want
SPEAKER_1 [00:00:45]
focus features,
SPEAKER_1 [00:00:47]
and I want
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the shared
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articles and music
SPEAKER_1 [00:00:53]
pieces to
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show up on my Windows,
SPEAKER_1 [00:00:56]
like, in news on the MacBook.
SPEAKER_1 [00:00:58]
So you're all in on the Focus then. Is that it? I am not, but I figure Focus will be easier to, like, set ones up
SPEAKER_1 [00:01:06]
on the MacBook.
SPEAKER_0 [00:01:09]
I don't know I don't know if I agree with that, but I'll I'll go with it. So
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I
SPEAKER_0 [00:01:15]
I can say it. Now, I am mostly all in on focus. I've done a few cool things. However, the coolest thing that I have encountered
SPEAKER_0 [00:01:23]
as far as focus goes, my son actually set up.
SPEAKER_0 [00:01:27]
And yeah. And this this has got me a little bit excited to see what kind of possible permutations I do in the future. He's got this app called Mimo, m I m o, that he has learned how to code HTML,
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JavaScript, CSS, and a little bit of Python, some SQL, learned how to use Git. Like, it's it's a combination tutorial and then workspace
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tool.
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It's it's pretty slick.
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It also has a public hosting element for, you know, web pages if you're gonna kinda build your own website. He's been using all of this. And he decided that when he is
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in the zone coding,
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he does not want any interruptions.
SPEAKER_0 [00:02:01]
He definitely gets that from you. Well, yeah. But he created a focus, and this has never even crossed my mind. He created a focus
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that when he is using the app, Memo,
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everything basically becomes quiet.
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Everything's silenced.
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So it's essentially do not disturb flipping on when he opens up the Mevo app. And I thought,
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that's brilliant. Right? Like Yep. If ever there were an app that I don't want to be disturbed in, it would probably be my editor. Right? So if my editor is open and running,
SPEAKER_0 [00:02:32]
I I don't want anybody to bug me. So I have not yet upgraded to Monterey, but I'm really curious to see Weren't you on the beta?
SPEAKER_0 [00:02:39]
Well, yeah. Yeah. But I had it on a separate partition. Oh, okay. So it was it was like a whole separate thing. I the the whole reason I haven't upgraded to Monterey, we're now
SPEAKER_0 [00:02:47]
eight hours later,
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is because of time machine,
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which I have recently renewed my hate for.
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I'm determined
SPEAKER_0 [00:02:57]
to find another
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solution.
SPEAKER_0 [00:03:00]
I don't know what it is yet, but I'm I'm gonna find it, John. It's somewhere out there. There's a solution that is better than time machine that allows me to use my expensive NAS
SPEAKER_0 [00:03:08]
and not be angry all the time.
SPEAKER_1 [00:03:12]
Maybe.
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Maybe. I don't know. Right now, I'm looking at carbon copy cloner. I've never tried it. So once I like, basically,
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I've I've this thing's been backing up the time machine all day. I I plugged it in directly to an ethernet jack.
SPEAKER_0 [00:03:27]
It's just it's just got a bunch of crap that's changed.
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I don't I don't use this computer enough to warrant, like, six gig of data that's moving right over that has for the last hour or so. Right.
SPEAKER_1 [00:03:38]
Like, what do you have on
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your actual hard drive that you need?
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I mean, my coding folder Your photos are in iCloud. Right? My photos are in the cloud. Yeah.
SPEAKER_0 [00:03:51]
Really, every everything's in the cloud.
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The the exception is local development stuff may be
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only on
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this device for a brief amount of time.
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But
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even that, John, like, I probably don't need time machine. But I have this NAS, and I don't
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I I I just don't I don't want to just sit there doing nothing. That's really the that you should gift it to Henry
SPEAKER_1 [00:04:17]
to mess around Well,
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I have he doesn't know this, but I have experimented a little bit with having some Docker images running various things that he could fiddle with. There you go. He's just not he's not quite at that stage yet.
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But I think he's he's getting close. He's getting close to where we're gonna start gluing pieces together. And he's not gonna just be doing front end client side stuff. He's gonna wanna fiddle a little bit more with a server side language. And what's interesting is you saw the news about Visual Studio Code?
SPEAKER_0 [00:04:46]
I did. Yeah. This is Running in the browser now? Yeah. Completely in the browser. So there's been something similar to this
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with, like, GitHub Spaces and whatnot. But this this is a whole other step removed from that, and that is You can open a local folder through the web browser. So
SPEAKER_0 [00:05:04]
I haven't actually I didn't try I don't think those APIs are support supported in Safari. I think you have to use
SPEAKER_1 [00:05:10]
Chrome or Edge. Edge makes sense.
SPEAKER_0 [00:05:12]
Yeah. They're relatively new.
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Yeah. It's not supported. So you can do you can use, like, the remote open remote stuff
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and connect it up to a a
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docker image or whatnot.
SPEAKER_0 [00:05:26]
Microsoft Edge is not nearly as evil as Google Chrome. So True. You know, that that's an option.
SPEAKER_0 [00:05:32]
But ultimately, when when
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Safari
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gets support for this API,
SPEAKER_0 [00:05:37]
that'll that'll be the sweet spot, I think. That'll really be where,
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at least for me,
SPEAKER_0 [00:05:42]
this makes a lot more sense. Now supposedly on the iPad though, it does actually have support for
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the files API or has something that's able to use your local storage. I haven't actually tried it. I should try it when we're done with this. But I
SPEAKER_0 [00:05:56]
think this could be, like, all the things coming together all at once for him, for me, for the future.
SPEAKER_1 [00:06:04]
Or for the future of Chromebooks.
SPEAKER_0 [00:06:07]
Oh, yeah. I mean, it's definitely I mean, we wanna talk about getting a shot in the arm from for a Chromebook standpoint. Like, this is
SPEAKER_0 [00:06:16]
is the right direction.
SPEAKER_0 [00:06:18]
I still don't I don't know. It's it might be still a lousy experience and the hardware is still subpar.
SPEAKER_0 [00:06:23]
But I do think cheap, Stan. It is very cheap. It's very cheap. It's a lot cheaper than the
SPEAKER_0 [00:06:29]
MacBook Pro
SPEAKER_0 [00:06:31]
m one Max that I've configured
SPEAKER_0 [00:06:33]
and is sitting in my bag. Yeah. Which you do not need. You do not need a NAS. You do not need a MacBook Pro m one Max. I'm not sure that I need a MacBook Pro anymore. I I would think of it this way. If I could just figure out how to record
SPEAKER_0 [00:06:48]
this podcast in a single file and send it to you on my iPad, I'd probably be done. Like, I don't I don't know that I need I love my Mac. Don't get me wrong.
SPEAKER_0 [00:06:57]
But I don't know that I need it. Oh.
SPEAKER_0 [00:07:00]
Oh. I hate I just hate saying that out loud. Yeah.
SPEAKER_0 [00:07:04]
Yeah. So
SPEAKER_1 [00:07:06]
I'm gonna die with a Mac in my hand, John. I'm be I'm not gonna tell you that there are ways for you to record this podcast and upload it to me. So
SPEAKER_0 [00:07:15]
Oh, I know there are. I know there are. I just
SPEAKER_0 [00:07:17]
it's like this is the whole thing. I don't I don't wanna go down the road. Alright. There you go. But
SPEAKER_0 [00:07:22]
so you haven't upgraded Monterey yet, I'm assuming? I have not. Okay. Alright. Well, Do
SPEAKER_1 [00:07:28]
I usually wait for, like, the first security patch for the Mac?
SPEAKER_0 [00:07:31]
Well, that used to be the golden rule, but I don't know that it applies as much anymore. And I will tell you this. My
SPEAKER_0 [00:07:38]
experience using Monterey
SPEAKER_0 [00:07:39]
on my separate partition beta wise, it has been incredibly stable.
SPEAKER_1 [00:07:44]
Way better That's good. Than well, it was Catalina that we able Yep. Yeah. You swore off upgrading ever again? I did. Well, and and I, like I don't think you had a great Big Sur experience early on either.
SPEAKER_0 [00:07:57]
I didn't I didn't upgrade to Big Sur. I did Big Sur on a partition and just fiddling So, around with
SPEAKER_0 [00:08:04]
you know, I I when when I did first get on to Big Sur
SPEAKER_0 [00:08:09]
on the on the, like, when it was generally available, I don't
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remember
SPEAKER_0 [00:08:14]
anything
SPEAKER_0 [00:08:15]
sticking out like a sore thumb.
SPEAKER_0 [00:08:18]
I don't remember being especially
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smooth though. You know, it's it's a lot different than, you remember Snow Leopard? Yeah. Right? Oh, it was like Gold standard. I ran it on my 13 inch white MacBook.
SPEAKER_0 [00:08:28]
Yeah. That thing was
SPEAKER_0 [00:08:31]
impeccable on day one. I mean, if there was I'm sure there were issues. There's always issues with software. But I it was just it was beautiful. Right? And that was kinda when Apple was doing this TikTok thing where they'd release, you know, a bunch of new features and then they'd polish them. Yep. And I think
SPEAKER_0 [00:08:48]
Monterey is a modest
SPEAKER_0 [00:08:50]
improvement for the most part. But there there are some big changes. Like I like you, I'm looking forward to focus. I'm looking forward to
SPEAKER_0 [00:08:58]
tags and reminders, and and just like
SPEAKER_0 [00:09:01]
the little stuff that they sprinkled everywhere. Quick notes. I'm looking forward to quick notes. Yep.
SPEAKER_0 [00:09:06]
So but we'll we'll have to talk about Monterey next week because we're we're just not there yet. So True.
SPEAKER_0 [00:09:12]
Alright, John. We've been for a while talking or at least threatening to talk about values,
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And I think tonight's the night. I think tonight we're gonna talk about values
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and
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what they are, why they matter.
SPEAKER_0 [00:09:26]
I'm gonna let you set this up because I I think actually you were the first person to put this bug in my ear to think about personal values, and you did it
SPEAKER_0 [00:09:35]
three over three years ago. Three and a half years ago, actually, on your blog,
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you wrote an article called
SPEAKER_1 [00:09:43]
core values. Why don't you why don't you give us the rundown of this? Yeah. So the article was what gets priority, an exercise in discovering and defining core values.
SPEAKER_1 [00:09:52]
And really, this came from art of manualiness between,
SPEAKER_1 [00:09:56]
article they posted back then
SPEAKER_1 [00:09:58]
Actually, that was even before I wrote this.
SPEAKER_1 [00:10:01]
Then they talk about it occasionally on the art of manliness podcast where they used to.
SPEAKER_1 [00:10:07]
So yeah.
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I don't know. I was on, like, a
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self help
SPEAKER_1 [00:10:16]
optimizing my life sort of kick at the time. So I guess that
SPEAKER_0 [00:10:20]
that's where it comes from. What are you on now, John? What kind of kick are you on now?
SPEAKER_1 [00:10:25]
Manhattan
SPEAKER_0 [00:10:25]
kick. There you go. Alright. Alright. Do
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do you share what what
SPEAKER_0 [00:10:31]
is in the glass? What did you use to make your Manhattan tonight?
SPEAKER_1 [00:10:34]
So
SPEAKER_1 [00:10:36]
this is funny.
SPEAKER_1 [00:10:38]
It's actually Seagram's whiskey
SPEAKER_1 [00:10:41]
Wow. From
SPEAKER_1 [00:10:42]
sometime in the nineteen seventies.
SPEAKER_0 [00:10:44]
Oh, man.
SPEAKER_1 [00:10:46]
So my
SPEAKER_1 [00:10:48]
grandmother recently sold her house
SPEAKER_1 [00:10:50]
and apparently these were like holiday gifts for my grandpa back when he was working with auto engineering in Dundee, Illinois.
SPEAKER_1 [00:10:57]
Okay. They were unopened.
SPEAKER_0 [00:11:00]
Unopened. Alright. Well, that's good. Because I was just saying, if they were open, like, don't really know what you're getting yourself into with the bottle seventies, but. Neither of my grandparents drink.
SPEAKER_1 [00:11:09]
My parents didn't drink. So they were literally just sitting in a cabinet since the seventies.
SPEAKER_1 [00:11:14]
Tastes fine. Manhattan
SPEAKER_0 [00:11:16]
sounds really good. I polished off the last of my Bullet Rye in Manhattan two weekends ago. So
SPEAKER_0 [00:11:24]
the only thing I have at this moment is Woodford Reserve to make a Manhattan, and I don't Which is possible, but not most. Yeah. It's exactly. Exactly. That's that's really what it comes down to. So alright. But but we that that was a We digress. As a detour. Yeah. Values.
SPEAKER_0 [00:11:38]
So you're on a self help kick.
SPEAKER_0 [00:11:41]
I remember
SPEAKER_0 [00:11:43]
when you wrote this. I don't remember caring.
SPEAKER_0 [00:11:46]
To
SPEAKER_0 [00:11:48]
to be candidly, like, I I I don't think it fazed me at the time. I was like, oh, okay. John's John's doing whatever it is John does. That's fine. Right?
SPEAKER_0 [00:11:56]
But then I I, at least recently, faced a
SPEAKER_0 [00:12:01]
rapid series
SPEAKER_0 [00:12:02]
rapid succession of in a series of,
SPEAKER_0 [00:12:06]
like, major life decisions, I guess. I I don't know. Yeah. Just a lot of lot of big things came up. And I think I think I tend to do it this way. Was reflecting on this today, actually.
SPEAKER_0 [00:12:15]
When when a big change comes up, my attitude is like, alright. How many big changes can I,
SPEAKER_0 [00:12:21]
like, incur right now? Right? So, like, I'm because they're they're never easy. Right? They always kinda stink
SPEAKER_0 [00:12:28]
Yep. In some way. Like, even the best even the best changes, the the like and so I'm just, alright, let's just do it all now. So if I'm gonna be miserable in any way, shape, or form You can time box it. Yeah. Exactly. Like, I'm gonna just I'm a compact all of that misery into this moment in time, and then I'm gonna chug along. And
SPEAKER_0 [00:12:45]
I was having a hard time, I think,
SPEAKER_0 [00:12:48]
evaluating
SPEAKER_0 [00:12:49]
and assessing and analyzing my life decisions,
SPEAKER_0 [00:12:52]
and I don't remember how I don't remember what what the conversation was. I think I said something to you like,
SPEAKER_0 [00:12:58]
I I just don't know if this is consistent with my values or something like that. And you, in a moment of probably
SPEAKER_0 [00:13:04]
clueless wisdom, because that's usually how you roll. You're like, I've got a bit of wisdom I'm gonna be doing right now.
SPEAKER_0 [00:13:11]
It's it's gonna be completely accidental. You're like, values make it easier to say no to stuff. I was like, you know what? That's freakishly brilliant. Did you have a manager or something?
SPEAKER_1 [00:13:21]
No. This this
SPEAKER_1 [00:13:22]
came from your job search.
SPEAKER_0 [00:13:25]
It could've yeah. It was it was somewhat related. Yeah. I mean Because
SPEAKER_1 [00:13:29]
you were going through interviews and,
SPEAKER_1 [00:13:32]
like, the values were a prominent part of
SPEAKER_0 [00:13:36]
everybody you talked with. Yeah. Well, with companies that I was interested in. Right? They they were a prominent theme. And at the same time, I I can't remember if I mentioned this on the podcast, but I read this book by
SPEAKER_0 [00:13:48]
was it Ben Horowitz?
SPEAKER_1 [00:13:50]
Is that right? The the VC guy. Don't know how to pronounce it, but yeah. It's Ben Horowitz. Horowitz or Horowitz?
SPEAKER_0 [00:13:58]
Oh, man. You're gonna make it hard now. Sorry, man. So the the book is what you do is who you are, and he actually
SPEAKER_0 [00:14:05]
and this is what struck me. First of all, this book was recommended to me, and I was like, alright.
SPEAKER_0 [00:14:09]
My life is not, like, determined or defined by my job. I'm going to hate this book. Right. This is the best book I've read in the last year.
SPEAKER_0 [00:14:18]
Right? So I slid through it, and and he talks really about, like, company culture.
SPEAKER_0 [00:14:22]
And specifically, hits on this idea
SPEAKER_0 [00:14:25]
of
SPEAKER_0 [00:14:26]
values
SPEAKER_0 [00:14:27]
really being the articulation of culture. Like, how do you how do you explain what culture is? Right? And it comes down to what's important to you, and that can be articulated through your values. Right? And I think the beauty of that is that really lines up with the the wisdom of John chapter one verse two. Values make it easy to say no to stuff.
SPEAKER_0 [00:14:46]
Yep.
SPEAKER_0 [00:14:48]
And what what I wound up doing is I sat down,
SPEAKER_0 [00:14:51]
and I started to ask myself, what are my values? Like, what are the things
SPEAKER_0 [00:14:55]
that
SPEAKER_0 [00:14:56]
allow me to say no to stuff? And also, in in in, you know, the flip side of that is true too. Right? Enable me
SPEAKER_0 [00:15:02]
to
SPEAKER_0 [00:15:03]
go in a particular direction or embrace a change,
SPEAKER_0 [00:15:06]
you know, even if the change maybe is gnarly on edges or or whatever.
SPEAKER_0 [00:15:10]
But
SPEAKER_0 [00:15:12]
your your blog article, right, from three and a half years ago, it's entitled what
SPEAKER_1 [00:15:17]
gets priority. So this is
SPEAKER_1 [00:15:20]
this was basically my way of trying to
SPEAKER_1 [00:15:24]
have a diving board off of which I could jump and write more blog articles,
SPEAKER_1 [00:15:28]
and I think there's been one posted since this. So I'm
SPEAKER_0 [00:15:33]
not I'm not doing so good on the blog front my myself. So Two. So I Yeah.
SPEAKER_1 [00:15:38]
There's one called weekly things, which I only posted once and not weekly. But I was doing like what I was reading, watching, stuff like that. But You should do that again, John. I'd love to know what you're reading and watching. The And I have to do things against him.
SPEAKER_0 [00:15:52]
Parables of Judgment by Cape On. Oh, that's a great book. That's such a great book. Did you buy me that? It actually says Stan Lemon sent me this book and I'm finally There
SPEAKER_0 [00:16:02]
you go. So
SPEAKER_0 [00:16:04]
alright. But but, like, I I think,
SPEAKER_0 [00:16:07]
for me at least,
SPEAKER_0 [00:16:10]
this this gave me a set like, a lens of clarity. Right?
SPEAKER_0 [00:16:14]
The Art of Manliness blog post that you linked to, I think is interesting in terms of getting you started. Right? So Right. Artemanliness,
SPEAKER_0 [00:16:22]
in general, has has some good content.
SPEAKER_0 [00:16:26]
I I think they're almost too narrow in their prescription
SPEAKER_0 [00:16:30]
on how to do this. So
SPEAKER_0 [00:16:32]
they basically
SPEAKER_0 [00:16:34]
tell you to, like, pick, what, five values, I think, and and write them down.
SPEAKER_1 [00:16:38]
And then you eliminate So basically, if you have more than five, then you eliminate to get down to five. Yeah. Yeah. So you Which I did.
SPEAKER_0 [00:16:46]
You did. Alright. You you stuck with five? So this was the thing that I
SPEAKER_0 [00:16:52]
decided I was just gonna out outright reject. There you go. So you know Do not value following the rules. I don't well, there you go. I should put that other way. Do not follow the rules. No. Well, I here here's what I did. I so I wrote down five,
SPEAKER_0 [00:17:05]
and they're implicitly broad. Right? So it's like Yep. Family, faith, friends,
SPEAKER_0 [00:17:10]
generosity, and doing the right thing. Right? So those were my my first five. And then I was like, you know what though? There are other things that I would want to factor into saying no to stuff. Right? Like, that I would want to to be
SPEAKER_0 [00:17:24]
a part of that decision making process.
SPEAKER_0 [00:17:27]
And I get to thinking, like, why why am I limiting myself to five? Like, can I articulate the entire corpus
SPEAKER_0 [00:17:34]
of, you know, my mental
SPEAKER_0 [00:17:36]
decision making, my mental guardrails for day to day life
SPEAKER_0 [00:17:40]
in just five things? And
SPEAKER_0 [00:17:43]
I I mean, I didn't wanna do it. I could I? I maybe. I don't know. I like what what I found myself doing was taking a single word and then framing it into 15 other words. Absolutely. Yeah.
SPEAKER_1 [00:17:56]
Yeah. So I think that it would be good to
SPEAKER_1 [00:18:01]
differentiate
SPEAKER_1 [00:18:01]
between
SPEAKER_1 [00:18:02]
core values
SPEAKER_1 [00:18:04]
and values. So I kind of picture it like one of those brainstorming charts or whatever where you have these big things and then all these things shooting off of it. So, like, craftsmanship is one of my values. Yep. And I think I list, like, 27 different things underneath that. So Yeah. Yeah. And it's totally fine. I think for me so I'll I'll just tell you where I went from this. Right? So I I had work hard not long. Right? Which is which is probably similar to your craftsmanship, I think, in in some ways. I had financial sanity,
SPEAKER_0 [00:18:32]
self reliance,
SPEAKER_0 [00:18:34]
being safe,
SPEAKER_0 [00:18:35]
and then doing with purpose. These were the other things. And and what I did is I wrote down a paragraph
SPEAKER_0 [00:18:39]
next to each of these to try and explain
SPEAKER_0 [00:18:43]
what the reason behind the the statement was.
SPEAKER_0 [00:18:48]
Because I think it is so easy
SPEAKER_0 [00:18:50]
to just take, like, do the right thing, you know Right. And let that be a bumper sticker and nothing else.
SPEAKER_0 [00:18:57]
But, you know, as a as a consequence of all this. Right? So
SPEAKER_0 [00:19:02]
family, faith, friends, those being the top three,
SPEAKER_0 [00:19:05]
they have allowed me recently to say no to things that were taking time away
SPEAKER_0 [00:19:09]
from each of those three. Right? And then, you know,
SPEAKER_0 [00:19:14]
there are other things like do the right thing has enabled me to make choices like at work. Right? To to maybe not always take the easy road or whatever
SPEAKER_0 [00:19:24]
on a particular project.
SPEAKER_0 [00:19:26]
And and I'm just trying to keep these in my face. One of the other things I think is important
SPEAKER_0 [00:19:33]
is the is the rate of change on this stuff. So so let me ask you this.
SPEAKER_0 [00:19:38]
You wrote this in 2018.
SPEAKER_0 [00:19:39]
Yep.
SPEAKER_0 [00:19:40]
Has it changed?
SPEAKER_1 [00:19:43]
It it has not changed from 2018 to now. I do think
SPEAKER_1 [00:19:47]
that it has probably changed throughout different seasons in life.
SPEAKER_1 [00:19:52]
So, like, in high school,
SPEAKER_1 [00:19:54]
like,
SPEAKER_1 [00:19:55]
it probably would have been different. I probably valued different things then.
SPEAKER_1 [00:19:59]
When I'm
SPEAKER_1 [00:20:00]
retired,
SPEAKER_1 [00:20:01]
maybe it changes then too.
SPEAKER_0 [00:20:03]
I wonder what retired John would value.
SPEAKER_0 [00:20:09]
Loneliness? Is loneliness a value?
SPEAKER_1 [00:20:12]
I don't think I value loneliness.
SPEAKER_1 [00:20:14]
So I value
SPEAKER_1 [00:20:16]
being alone.
SPEAKER_0 [00:20:18]
There you go. There you go.
SPEAKER_0 [00:20:20]
So
SPEAKER_0 [00:20:22]
basically,
SPEAKER_0 [00:20:23]
what we're we're what I'm trying to get at here is I think values
SPEAKER_0 [00:20:26]
are
SPEAKER_0 [00:20:27]
slow going in terms of change. Right? I don't believe
SPEAKER_0 [00:20:31]
that
SPEAKER_0 [00:20:34]
value should be something that are constantly iterated on. Correct. I maybe you constantly iterate to get to your set of values. Right? So, like, this list I think I showed you this list several times over the span of a few weeks as I was polishing this. Sure. And it started, honestly, with me just writing down the top level words. Right?
SPEAKER_0 [00:20:54]
And then they changed. I I honed those in.
SPEAKER_0 [00:20:58]
Seasons of Life, I think, is a good qualifier here. Right? You know, the Stan who's sitting here
SPEAKER_0 [00:21:04]
in his late thirties talking to you
SPEAKER_0 [00:21:06]
deaf absolutely
SPEAKER_0 [00:21:08]
values things differently
SPEAKER_0 [00:21:10]
than the Stan who did in his early twenties. Right? Right.
SPEAKER_1 [00:21:14]
For kids,
SPEAKER_1 [00:21:15]
before being married. Yeah. Mean, you didn't have any of the early twenties before being married. No. I didn't. But but, like, you know, I I don't know that
SPEAKER_0 [00:21:24]
family would have been as high on my list because
SPEAKER_1 [00:21:28]
it was just Sarah and I. You know? Yeah. So family doesn't even make my make
SPEAKER_1 [00:21:33]
my five, but I tie it in
SPEAKER_1 [00:21:36]
with faith and integrity.
SPEAKER_1 [00:21:38]
So
SPEAKER_0 [00:21:39]
And see, for me, right, as I was reflecting, family kept moving further up my list. And I'm not necessarily saying that these are in the perfect order, but but I was just reflecting too on like the last
SPEAKER_0 [00:21:49]
you know,
SPEAKER_0 [00:21:50]
pandemic's been great for for a lot of things, and one of them is reflecting on what what is important in life. And I have made a lot of decisions
SPEAKER_0 [00:21:57]
solely based upon
SPEAKER_0 [00:21:58]
my family. Right?
SPEAKER_0 [00:22:00]
And I think, you know, early twenties Stan might have done things a little differently, but Early twenties Stan wouldn't be living in Indianapolis?
SPEAKER_0 [00:22:08]
No. No. No. No. No. Would not. But
SPEAKER_0 [00:22:12]
but the but the point just being, like, you know, I I think to kinda reaffirm your seasons of live comment. Right? These things can change.
SPEAKER_0 [00:22:20]
If you find yourself
SPEAKER_0 [00:22:22]
just completely,
SPEAKER_0 [00:22:23]
you know, shuffling them and editing them up all the time, probably not the right
SPEAKER_0 [00:22:29]
set of of values At that point, what is core about them? Right? Right. Yeah. And and, like, if you can't come up with core values or or your core values are they're, like, legitimately your core values and they're constantly changing, you know, there's there's medication for that. I
SPEAKER_0 [00:22:43]
I I just think,
SPEAKER_0 [00:22:45]
you know, stability in this is reflective of stability in a lot of other things, you know. And
SPEAKER_0 [00:22:50]
I
SPEAKER_0 [00:22:52]
I suffice to say,
SPEAKER_0 [00:22:54]
decision making has been a lot easier since I I wrote this
SPEAKER_0 [00:22:58]
in
SPEAKER_0 [00:22:59]
gosh, I think it was it was over a month ago now in September. But
SPEAKER_0 [00:23:05]
anyhow, I don't know. I I think it's worth worth talking about. And I I think the challenge I would, you know, offer up to anybody listening is sit down and write out what you think your core values are. Now now, John, I I list off mine. You you
SPEAKER_0 [00:23:19]
you mentioned craftsmanship, but I don't think you listed off all five of yours, did you? No. So
SPEAKER_1 [00:23:24]
in order, and I did prioritize these. So it faith, integrity, friendship, self reliance, and craftsmanship.
SPEAKER_1 [00:23:32]
And
SPEAKER_1 [00:23:34]
yeah. I mean, I write on my blog post that we can link kinda
SPEAKER_1 [00:23:38]
just my thoughts as I'm going through this.
SPEAKER_1 [00:23:41]
One thing that I did that you didn't do, but you are more sure of yourself than I am, is I actually asked asked a bunch of people
SPEAKER_1 [00:23:50]
who I interact with, like, what they thought I valued. And you, Stan Lemon, you said excellence,
SPEAKER_1 [00:23:57]
which is a way of saying that I'm patient around stupid people.
SPEAKER_0 [00:24:01]
There you go.
SPEAKER_0 [00:24:02]
There you go. I think I fell into craftsmanship somewhere. Did you did you put that did you didn't quote me in here, did you? No. I didn't. I didn't Oh, thank thank goodness. Sometimes I wonder, like, what what comes up when you search for Stan Lemon on the Internet, and it it terrifies me. Like, the people people actually pay attention to what I say or they quote me, like, it could just be bad. Yes. That's why you have a podcast with your name on it. Yep. Oh, my goodness.
SPEAKER_0 [00:24:27]
So
SPEAKER_0 [00:24:29]
you you did list here, though, also
SPEAKER_0 [00:24:34]
oh, hey. You did actually quote this, John. I quoted it. I didn't attribute it to you. Yeah. Yeah. Right.
SPEAKER_0 [00:24:40]
Yeah. You list out all the ones that you put. Oh my goodness. Not all of them. So just ones that I
SPEAKER_1 [00:24:46]
that actually made the list.
SPEAKER_1 [00:24:48]
Things that I brainstormed and stuff like that.
SPEAKER_1 [00:24:51]
And you'll see that there's lots of those that that
SPEAKER_1 [00:24:54]
kinda
SPEAKER_1 [00:24:56]
fall into
SPEAKER_1 [00:24:58]
what my core values actually ended up being.
SPEAKER_0 [00:25:01]
Yeah.
SPEAKER_0 [00:25:02]
Yeah. Definitely. There's definitely a lot of overlap, which I think is is nice. Right? Like, you saw that reflection
SPEAKER_0 [00:25:07]
back,
SPEAKER_0 [00:25:08]
you know, in the feedback that you got from people,
SPEAKER_0 [00:25:11]
which is another interesting point. You know, I think if you
SPEAKER_0 [00:25:14]
share your values with people that you trust in life,
SPEAKER_0 [00:25:18]
and they look at them and are puzzled
SPEAKER_0 [00:25:21]
or
SPEAKER_0 [00:25:22]
don't understand them
SPEAKER_0 [00:25:24]
That doesn't sound like you. Yeah. Now,
SPEAKER_0 [00:25:28]
you know, that maybe maybe you need to adjust those values. Maybe they're aspirational. I think values in some respect
SPEAKER_0 [00:25:34]
can be aspirational, especially if you're trying to use them
SPEAKER_0 [00:25:38]
to, you know, improve your decision making.
SPEAKER_0 [00:25:42]
But if they're all aspirational,
SPEAKER_0 [00:25:43]
then there's not much of an anchor to to hang on to there. It's it's life, you know, throws you back and forth. But
SPEAKER_0 [00:25:51]
do you have these printed out or written out anywhere that you see them?
SPEAKER_1 [00:25:56]
No. Not on a regular basis, but I can name them off the top of my head pretty easily. Yeah.
SPEAKER_0 [00:26:01]
So I think that's good. Right? To have them top of mind. The and this is one of the benefits of having five instead of how many ever I wound up with.
SPEAKER_0 [00:26:10]
I think I've told you before that I I live out of my notes app quite a bit. Right? Like, I I just I function there.
SPEAKER_0 [00:26:17]
And I have different folders now.
SPEAKER_0 [00:26:20]
I've I've started to do that as I've amassed more notes, because I'm I'm starting to value note taking. It's not a value, but it's it's consistent with my values.
SPEAKER_0 [00:26:29]
And This used to be an Evernote, Stan.
SPEAKER_0 [00:26:31]
Yeah. You used to be an Evernote. Oh, man. Evernote Evernote really destroyed
SPEAKER_0 [00:26:36]
my skill and talent as a notetaker. It it really did. And it still, to this day,
SPEAKER_0 [00:26:42]
makes me a little bit mad.
SPEAKER_0 [00:26:44]
But there are tags in Monterey, John, and I think that that that could be the thing I needed. It might it might just be the thing to bring me back full circle.
SPEAKER_0 [00:26:54]
But so
SPEAKER_0 [00:26:56]
I I have one folder of notes though that's like stuff that I look at at least once a week. Like, it's just it's just gonna it's just gonna be there. Right?
SPEAKER_0 [00:27:04]
They're like super notes, I guess I would call them,
SPEAKER_0 [00:27:07]
because they tend to be,
SPEAKER_0 [00:27:09]
things that either
SPEAKER_0 [00:27:11]
pertain to, like, household management stuff. Right? So we've got, like, the list of things in the deep freezer as an example, which, you know, is a is an inventory that's constantly changing as I buy groceries, as we cook meals, etcetera. Then it also has stuff like my values, and it has other things like,
SPEAKER_0 [00:27:29]
prayers or the
SPEAKER_0 [00:27:32]
the thing that we that my wife and I use to track,
SPEAKER_0 [00:27:37]
like, weird expenses. Like, things just, you know, like, here's a birthday that's coming up this month or here's something that was thinking about buying kind of thing.
SPEAKER_0 [00:27:45]
So I it's in that folder. It's it's there, gets in my face at a regular interval. You just roll your eyes. I'm not sure why. I just
SPEAKER_1 [00:27:54]
do you still journal every day, Stan?
SPEAKER_0 [00:27:58]
I do. I do. Why?
SPEAKER_1 [00:27:59]
Because I'm thinking, like, that would be a good
SPEAKER_1 [00:28:02]
like
SPEAKER_1 [00:28:04]
like, the five minute journal would be a good prompt. Like,
SPEAKER_1 [00:28:07]
how
SPEAKER_1 [00:28:08]
did you use your core values today, or how are your core values displayed or something like that? That's that's not a bad idea at all. I think the thing is, at least for me, journaling
SPEAKER_0 [00:28:17]
is predominantly
SPEAKER_0 [00:28:19]
just like a a fact capturing.
SPEAKER_0 [00:28:23]
And so,
SPEAKER_0 [00:28:24]
you know, it'll be like, went to church this morning
SPEAKER_0 [00:28:28]
in confirmation class afterwards,
SPEAKER_0 [00:28:30]
then I took Lucy to go buy a winter coat. Right?
SPEAKER_0 [00:28:35]
And maybe that's maybe that's weird. Maybe I could do more reflecting. I definitely
SPEAKER_0 [00:28:39]
at big moments in life, we'll do more reflecting. But by and large, I'm just capturing
SPEAKER_0 [00:28:43]
day to day facts.
SPEAKER_0 [00:28:46]
So if I ever got into the prompt based journaling, that would be a great that'd be a great thing to do. And actually, day one has templates, and you can have specific reminders for specific journals with specific templates, and it's it's actually pretty powerful for that kind of journaling. It's just not really what what I do.
SPEAKER_0 [00:29:02]
Sure. Not that there's anything wrong with that. You know? So
SPEAKER_1 [00:29:06]
Do what works for you. I don't journal at all. I go through seasons of life where I journal, but There you go. Not regularly. This is your thing today, seasons of life.
SPEAKER_0 [00:29:14]
I think my thing, at least on the journaling front, has just been
SPEAKER_0 [00:29:18]
I want to remember
SPEAKER_0 [00:29:21]
things that happened on a specific day and time. Right? So one of my favorite things to do
SPEAKER_0 [00:29:27]
is to get up in the morning to look at
SPEAKER_0 [00:29:30]
the the journals from past years,
SPEAKER_0 [00:29:32]
and then switch over to the photos app, and look at the photos from past years
SPEAKER_0 [00:29:36]
before I get going.
SPEAKER_0 [00:29:38]
And that's I just I just I really enjoy that. And maybe I'm getting You're getting a sap niscal
SPEAKER_1 [00:29:44]
your old old years. Nostalgic.
SPEAKER_0 [00:29:46]
Nostalgic. You gotta say it 10 times fast, John.
SPEAKER_1 [00:29:50]
That's
SPEAKER_1 [00:29:51]
very different than the Stan Lemmon I met initially.
SPEAKER_0 [00:29:54]
Yeah. Stan Lemon you met initially was not nostalgic.
SPEAKER_0 [00:29:58]
I'm still minimalist as far as the stuff I keep lingering around my off office. But
SPEAKER_1 [00:30:03]
Yep. Yeah.
SPEAKER_0 [00:30:04]
I don't know. You know, it's
SPEAKER_0 [00:30:06]
maybe maybe kids did that. I I'm not sure. I because I'd I'd like them to have some sense of what I did,
SPEAKER_0 [00:30:13]
you know, when they were So
SPEAKER_0 [00:30:15]
we'll see. I don't know. But anyhow, John, I think that's a pretty good discussion on values there.
SPEAKER_1 [00:30:22]
Yeah.
SPEAKER_1 [00:30:23]
Is there anything else you wanna say? Well,
SPEAKER_1 [00:30:26]
on the values front? On the values front.
SPEAKER_0 [00:30:28]
No. I don't think so. I think but, basically, your challenge. Write down your values, reflect on them, analyze them, use them to help you make decisions. And if you do that, I don't I don't think you'll be mad about it.
SPEAKER_1 [00:30:40]
I think that Lucy should do this, and we can see what life as an almost 12 year old values.
SPEAKER_1 [00:30:47]
Oh, that'd be interesting. That'd be interesting. But that means she's gotta do it this week. Right?
SPEAKER_0 [00:30:51]
Well,
SPEAKER_0 [00:30:53]
as long as it stops raining, she'll mow, hear the podcast, and probably take take us up on that. So There you go.
SPEAKER_0 [00:30:59]
Alright. Last thing we've had floating around on this agenda for a while, you labeled it professionalism.
SPEAKER_0 [00:31:03]
It just said don't ghost people. And I think I think I've
SPEAKER_0 [00:31:07]
this came because I vented to you about
SPEAKER_0 [00:31:10]
somebody simply not showing up for a meeting. And I was sitting there trying to decide at what point, are you got an hour long meeting, at what point do you cut your losses? Yep. Is it at five minutes? Is it at ten minutes? Is it at fifteen minutes? Is it longer?
SPEAKER_0 [00:31:24]
When you when you cut your losses, do you
SPEAKER_0 [00:31:27]
tell somebody?
SPEAKER_0 [00:31:28]
Do you wait for the person to notice? Like, how do you handle those situations where someone just does not show up for the thing that they were supposed to do?
SPEAKER_1 [00:31:37]
Usually, get annoyed.
SPEAKER_0 [00:31:39]
Yeah. I mean, don't get me wrong. In this particular ghosting, I was extremely annoyed,
SPEAKER_0 [00:31:46]
because I had set aside time for the meeting. Right? Like, had actually disrupted something I was doing that I felt was relatively productive
SPEAKER_0 [00:31:54]
in order to have this. And I think that's the worst feeling. Right? Is that to, like,
SPEAKER_0 [00:32:00]
to be
SPEAKER_0 [00:32:01]
and and this is how it comes across.
SPEAKER_0 [00:32:03]
I have a lot of things going on in my day. Right?
SPEAKER_0 [00:32:07]
And
SPEAKER_0 [00:32:07]
some of them are important. Some of them are not, quite frankly.
SPEAKER_0 [00:32:11]
But I have set aside a block of time for something that, you know, person x deemed
SPEAKER_0 [00:32:18]
important.
SPEAKER_0 [00:32:19]
Right. And person x didn't show up.
SPEAKER_0 [00:32:21]
Right? So
SPEAKER_0 [00:32:22]
at that point, it's just a complete disregard
SPEAKER_0 [00:32:25]
of my time. It's it's it's more than just rude. I think it's disrespectful. I think that's why it irks me the way that it does. Yep.
SPEAKER_0 [00:32:33]
I think though,
SPEAKER_0 [00:32:35]
in this later season of life,
SPEAKER_1 [00:32:37]
as as you would say I wouldn't say later season of life, Stan. Oh, I feel so old. You aren't that old yet.
SPEAKER_0 [00:32:47]
I I think I've started to reflect upon the fact that I don't think people are deliberately disrespectful.
SPEAKER_0 [00:32:54]
I I think we just, maybe as a society, have lost
SPEAKER_0 [00:32:58]
a sense of timeliness.
SPEAKER_0 [00:33:00]
Right? And like a regard, like a situational awareness
SPEAKER_0 [00:33:07]
for for everyone around us.
SPEAKER_1 [00:33:09]
That is a lot of best construction, Stan, and I don't think I agree.
SPEAKER_0 [00:33:13]
Okay. You so you think people are being deliberately disrespectful?
SPEAKER_1 [00:33:17]
Yeah.
SPEAKER_1 [00:33:17]
But not
SPEAKER_1 [00:33:19]
to the end of being disrespectful.
SPEAKER_1 [00:33:21]
I think everybody just thinks they're more more important than everything else.
SPEAKER_0 [00:33:26]
And they just downright don't care? Is that what is that what it comes down to? Yeah. I mean, they care about something else more.
SPEAKER_1 [00:33:32]
I think you see this you see this in, like,
SPEAKER_1 [00:33:36]
middle schoolers and high schoolers now too.
SPEAKER_1 [00:33:38]
Like, there's there's just blatant disrespect
SPEAKER_1 [00:33:41]
in our culture. Don't it's definitely a cultural thing. But
SPEAKER_0 [00:33:46]
So let me ask this. Do you I I have I have no frame of reference for this question. I'm I'm assuming you do via the missus.
SPEAKER_0 [00:33:54]
Can you, as a junior higher, walk into class late these days?
SPEAKER_1 [00:33:58]
Can
SPEAKER_1 [00:33:59]
you? No. But there's absolutely no consequence
SPEAKER_1 [00:34:03]
that they can do. So there's kids wandering the halls, Or, like, we talked about the TikTok challenges a couple weeks ago, didn't we? Yeah. They're like, hey. Go steal something or hit a teacher or whatever.
SPEAKER_0 [00:34:14]
I just I just can't fathom that. Like, it looks stumbling into a class late.
SPEAKER_0 [00:34:19]
You know? I
SPEAKER_0 [00:34:21]
don't know.
SPEAKER_0 [00:34:23]
And and I don't you and I both are
SPEAKER_0 [00:34:27]
sons of teachers.
SPEAKER_0 [00:34:29]
Right? And so I don't I don't know how much this is that. Right? Because
SPEAKER_0 [00:34:34]
my dad was always jumpy to get out the door on time. Right? Because
SPEAKER_0 [00:34:38]
the bell's gonna ring and class is gonna start. Right? And so you were gonna be seated in your desk or your or the car to go wherever we were gonna go. Like, that's just that was part of the mindset. So I and I've reflected on this a bit too. Like, am I am I antsy about the clock
SPEAKER_0 [00:34:52]
because,
SPEAKER_0 [00:34:53]
you know, my dad was a teacher and that was like infused into
SPEAKER_0 [00:34:57]
our world. And not only was my dad a teacher, he was the son of a teacher and the son
SPEAKER_0 [00:35:02]
of an air force officer. Right? So you wanna talk about, like,
SPEAKER_0 [00:35:07]
being on time, just being ingrained into his DNA.
SPEAKER_0 [00:35:10]
Right. And I got I got half that, you know? So
SPEAKER_1 [00:35:13]
Yeah. I mean, I get
SPEAKER_1 [00:35:15]
if I don't show up someplace early, like assuming it's not just a purely social function, like I'm getting very anxious that I'm not gonna be on time to the point where I'll get places 15 early and then go find some place to sit so I don't
SPEAKER_0 [00:35:28]
I'm not disrespectful by showing up too early and thinking of somebody else's time. Do you if you're driving someplace and it's a half hour, do you ever leave forty five minutes ahead of time and then literally, like, park in a different parking lot and wait till you get down to the five minute mark kinda thing? Do ever do that? I have. Yeah. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_0 [00:35:46]
Yeah. I've done that too. I wonder how
SPEAKER_0 [00:35:48]
I guess in my mind, that's normal, but it's probably not. Is it, John? Probably not. I think it's some sort of anxiety stance.
SPEAKER_0 [00:35:55]
Could be. It could be. It could be. I man, I thought I took for that.
SPEAKER_0 [00:36:00]
So
SPEAKER_1 [00:36:03]
this goes This is why we get along though, Stan.
SPEAKER_0 [00:36:06]
Yeah. Because because we're both anxious about being late.
SPEAKER_0 [00:36:10]
We we have very similar anxieties, I think, about the
SPEAKER_0 [00:36:15]
the impressions that we leave with people. Right? That's that's what it comes down to. I care
SPEAKER_0 [00:36:20]
I this this sounds bad. I care what other people think. Right? And we
SPEAKER_0 [00:36:25]
we grew up in the late nineties, early aughts. Right? And
SPEAKER_1 [00:36:29]
repeatedly told You just do don't you. Care yeah. Just do you. Don't care what other happy, Stan. Do anything for your happiness.
SPEAKER_1 [00:36:36]
Here's the Yeah.
SPEAKER_0 [00:36:40]
But think about it. Right? Like, it was it was definitely a mantra as we were kids. Don't worry what other people think about you. Mhmm. Right?
SPEAKER_0 [00:36:48]
And I there's there's value in that. Right? Like, you don't want to spring your self image
SPEAKER_0 [00:36:52]
in light of what other people project upon you. That that's just awful. Yep. But I do think I do think it is a slight misrepresentation
SPEAKER_0 [00:36:59]
in that you should care what other people think. Yep. Right? You should care if they think
SPEAKER_0 [00:37:05]
let's take it back to the values conversation.
SPEAKER_0 [00:37:07]
Right? Do they see your values
SPEAKER_0 [00:37:09]
in the way you conduct yourself?
SPEAKER_0 [00:37:11]
If they don't, what does that actually say about your values? You know? Right.
SPEAKER_0 [00:37:16]
So there's a balance. Right? I think we've talked about this before. There's nuance in all of these things,
SPEAKER_0 [00:37:21]
and this is no different.
SPEAKER_0 [00:37:23]
But
SPEAKER_0 [00:37:24]
ultimately, I think maybe I'm coming around to your side of this, John, and I people just don't care.
SPEAKER_0 [00:37:30]
Right? That's why they they show up late and they don't show up. So, like, I
SPEAKER_1 [00:37:34]
never feel like I am the most important person in the room,
SPEAKER_1 [00:37:37]
and I have
SPEAKER_1 [00:37:39]
chaired boards.
SPEAKER_1 [00:37:41]
So, like,
SPEAKER_1 [00:37:42]
it's always
SPEAKER_1 [00:37:44]
no. The people around you are more important than you, like, from your perspective. Like, you're there to serve them or
SPEAKER_0 [00:37:52]
yeah. I don't know. And and I think if you go into it with that attitude,
SPEAKER_0 [00:37:56]
you know, you're you never miss a meeting.
SPEAKER_0 [00:38:00]
You're rarely late, and when you are late, you apologize.
SPEAKER_0 [00:38:03]
Right.
SPEAKER_0 [00:38:05]
And I think people can come to expect that of you, and then that that also yields, like, like, better fruit. Right? Yep. So
SPEAKER_1 [00:38:11]
anyhow And if you're trying to hire someone for your company,
SPEAKER_1 [00:38:16]
like,
SPEAKER_1 [00:38:16]
you should probably just respond to their application at some point. That was the other thing that came up here. Like Oh, it's it's right. How many applications have I submitted and heard absolutely
SPEAKER_1 [00:38:26]
nothing?
SPEAKER_0 [00:38:28]
I I told you I won't I won't need the company, but I I went to one interview
SPEAKER_0 [00:38:32]
where
SPEAKER_0 [00:38:34]
three weeks passed. And it it was like it was like a three and a half hour commitment that I I made to this company, this interview process.
SPEAKER_0 [00:38:41]
Three weeks went back past. I had not heard a thing. And finally, I emailed.
SPEAKER_0 [00:38:46]
And I was like, hey. What's the deal? Any feedback? And the response I got was, oh, we're we're going a different direction.
SPEAKER_0 [00:38:52]
Like, why didn't you tell me that three weeks ago? Like Yeah. First of all, that all that means is, like, this this is not a match made to be. Right? Like, you don't have to sugarcoat it. They weren't gonna give me any feedback. They were just gonna, like, ghost me. Right? And that that's awful. But I I do think that company that you want to work for, which in a position like Stan, you can, like,
SPEAKER_1 [00:39:11]
be picky.
SPEAKER_0 [00:39:12]
But I can't not everybody is that lucky. Well and and actually, I'll tell you, not only not only did I nix this off of my list of companies I was interested in for just now, but but probably for the future too. Like, I just don't it's gonna ever appeal to me after that.
SPEAKER_0 [00:39:26]
I'm also less inclined to use their product because of that.
SPEAKER_0 [00:39:29]
Right? Because because that I mean, that's reflective of a whole lot more than just one person being bad with email.
SPEAKER_1 [00:39:36]
But Yep. Anyhow.
SPEAKER_0 [00:39:38]
Alright, John. Alright. I think that one two
SPEAKER_0 [00:39:41]
things that have been on our list for a month, Stan. And next week, we'll talk about Monterey and it'll be great. Yeah. I wonder if we can get more than ten minutes out of Monterey. What do you think?
SPEAKER_0 [00:39:50]
Maybe. I gotta install it first. Yeah. Me too. Once the time machine's done backing up. That's good.
SPEAKER_0 [00:39:57]
Alright, buddy. Until next time, my friend. Later, man.
SPEAKER_0 [00:40:01]
Alright. This is Stan Lemon reminding you to help control the spread of COVID nineteen. Go get your vaccine.