00:00:53.24 Stan Lemon Okay, Jonathan, we find ourselves here on the 16th of December. This is the 175th episode. That feels like a milestone date, I think because it ends in the number five.
00:01:03.74 Stan Lemon But more importantly, we have a Malbec tonight.
00:01:08.41 Jon We do. From Argentina.
00:01:11.58 Stan Lemon Which is honestly the only place you should have a Malbec from, I believe.
00:01:15.13 Jon i would probably agree with that.
00:01:17.51 Stan Lemon That's not to say that other countries can't do a Malbec, but I just, I feel like if you want a quintessential Malbec, you would have to do it from Argentina. So this is the Bracero. It is a 2024 vintage.
00:01:33.05 Stan Lemon John, your pour is coming across the audio like magic.
00:01:33.69 Jon got a nice
00:01:39.83 Jon There you go. Yours too, Stan.
00:01:44.65 Stan Lemon That's not AI generated, folks. That's what pouring wine smells like.
00:01:47.42 Jon Real, real live sound effects.
00:01:51.67 Stan Lemon so I'm going admit tonight i'm I'm a little under the weather. I've got a sinus thing going on. So I do not know what I will smell or notice tonight. But we'll give this a shot.
00:02:01.89 Stan Lemon So, and then you you don't have the, you know, let me find, I need a piece of white paper here.
00:02:03.14 Jon It's a very deep color.
00:02:10.45 Stan Lemon Yeah, it's a beautiful red is what that is.
00:02:13.72 Stan Lemon with some nice purple hues to it.
00:02:17.34 Jon Indeed.
00:02:17.43 Stan Lemon All right, so there's definitely something I'll say um grassy on the nose. Do you get that? No.
00:02:26.87 Jon did not.
00:02:27.98 Stan Lemon if we Again, could be the sinus. I took some Tylenol. I tried to cleanse my palate.
00:02:33.64 Jon I think there is some readiness to it, actually.
00:02:37.10 Stan Lemon maybe i Maybe a hint of it. I get ah really do get something that's very nature-oriented, something very earthy.
00:02:44.14 Jon I don't think I would categorize it as grass, though.
00:02:47.78 Stan Lemon You don't think that smells like a nice grass cutting after a hot July day? All right, well.
00:02:54.93 Jon I do not.
00:02:57.86 Jon I think generally you get that note in in white wines occasionally.
00:02:58.32 Stan Lemon It's earthy, though.
00:03:01.02 Stan Lemon Yeah, no, I think that's fair. But like, um you do you get something earthy or no?
00:03:04.06 Jon There is there is an earthiness or a spiciness to it
00:03:09.70 Jon I guess it's not really spicy, but it could be like... I don't know, I can't place it.
00:03:14.91 Stan Lemon like Like baking spices maybe. all right you ready?
00:03:18.28 Jon Maybe we can spot this warmer.
00:03:19.16 Stan Lemon You ready to to taste it?
00:03:20.92 Jon Sure.
00:03:23.14 Stan Lemon That's very fruit forward.
00:03:25.95 Jon It is very fruit forward, but I like it. And it's got a nice long finish too.
00:03:33.11 Stan Lemon It lingers. It's got a little bit of a tartness in the mid-tongue, mid to back, where I think I get a little bit more of those baking spices. um It's very sweet on the front part of the mouth. I mean, this fur for a dry wine, it's sweet. um And I would say I'm getting... it's some blackberry. Don't you think that's some blackberry?
00:03:53.55 Jon I think I get blackberry on the front, maybe a hint of plum there. And then I think there's actually a blueberry that comes out towards the back of the tongue.
00:03:59.44 Stan Lemon Plum.
00:04:06.67 Jon Back mid part of the tongue.
00:04:08.40 Stan Lemon And you're not just saying that as an ode to Danchez and his terrible pie choices, right?
00:04:12.37 Jon I am not, um but I also like blueberry pie. I know that you're a big fan of Triple Perry, as we have guessed, um but that pie episode, Stan, it has taken over my life.
00:04:24.72 Jon um It's upset things at work. People are up in arms about that episode.
00:04:30.74 Stan Lemon right. You want to go right into that, Jonathan, or if we stick with the wine?
00:04:32.66 Jon there
00:04:33.62 Stan Lemon we get We got so much to cover today.
00:04:34.10 Jon but We can always come back to the wine as new things develop and it opens up, but...
00:04:40.27 Stan Lemon i am curious to see if it opens up. So before we just progress here real quick, so the do you want to know what the tasty notes say from the the sheet that you threw up?
00:04:48.53 Jon I mean, sure.
00:04:49.87 Stan Lemon Okay. It says, this is inspired by Argentina's traditional bracero grill. This juicy ripe Malbec from the San Juan region is the perfect companion for bold meats.
00:05:01.62 Stan Lemon I had fish for dinner. The tasty notes are blackberry, spice, and notes of smoke.
00:05:04.11 Jon And chili.
00:05:07.48 Stan Lemon i Actually, I haven't gotten any oakiness on this yet. Maybe that is the earthiness that I was smelling, but i haven't I'm not tasting and oakiness.
00:05:15.86 Jon Yeah, I don't get smoke yet.
00:05:19.51 Stan Lemon The perfect pairing, Jonathan, it would be a skirt steak and chimmy curry.
00:05:24.83 Jon OK.
00:05:26.20 Stan Lemon I'm pretty sure that any red...
00:05:26.20 Jon Is that how you pronounce that word? I always say chimichurri.
00:05:29.97 Stan Lemon So it's funny you bring this up because we actually have been debating this as a family for the last four days because we had chimichurri. I keep calling it chimichurri. And ah let's just say that there's there's some disagreements in the household. I think I'm probably saying it wrong is what I would guess.
00:05:47.48 Stan Lemon um I feel like.
00:05:48.76 Jon If only we had ah resources to help us figure out how to pronounce things.
00:05:54.45 Stan Lemon Yeah, well, we're we're recording now, so we're not going stop to listen to to something. But yeah. um No, hey, just one last note. So I think this this is the first Malbec we've had, right?
00:06:04.25 Jon In this Advent calendar, I believe that is correct.
00:06:05.72 Stan Lemon Yeah, it's it has been... we've had it i I feel like this is anecdotal. I feel like we've had a predominance of Italian wines with a nice helping of French wines.
00:06:19.55 Jon Yep.
00:06:19.98 Stan Lemon I should have marked off which ones of these we've had. Actually, a couple of Spanish wines too.
00:06:24.60 Jon We had a couple Spanish, um but it's mostly been red blends of some sort.
00:06:31.45 Stan Lemon Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not not single single varietals. That's good call out. um You know, i feel like Malbec was all the rage. I'm to say pre-pandemic, right? Like the hipsters love the Malbec. because they forgot that Merlot existed. And like, oh, it's a wine that's not sweet.
00:06:48.34 Stan Lemon And there's there's probably something to do with the cost too, because I think Malbecs tend to run a little cheaper than a good Merlot.
00:06:54.29 Jon Interesting.
00:06:56.53 Stan Lemon all All anecdotal, Jonathan, I have no data to back this up.
00:06:58.10 Jon you You go out far more often than I do, and you are ah more in sync with the things that are popular.
00:07:06.97 Stan Lemon Are you calling me a hipster?
00:07:08.82 Jon um I think that you're hipster adjacent.
00:07:11.80 Stan Lemon Hipster Jason. Okay, I'll embrace that.
00:07:13.05 Jon and you've got high school-aged children at home, so there's that.
00:07:17.11 Stan Lemon They know nothing about wine. They better not know anything about wine. Yeah.
00:07:20.89 Jon But they might know about hipsters.
00:07:24.05 Stan Lemon I suspect that this is an aspect of hipsterism that they do not know about, but I could be wrong.
00:07:28.34 Jon Okay.
00:07:29.31 Stan Lemon So so my first encounter...
00:07:29.72 Jon So could this just be that you work with a big California tech company.
00:07:33.56 Stan Lemon That could be my, my first encounter actually with Malbec was before you and I started drinking wine together. um I had a friend who I would probably have classified as maybe hipster Jason's a way to describe them too. And anyhow, i'm not, I'm going to name them cause I don't want to get in trouble, but they introduced Sarah and I to, ah the Malbec. Right. And i was like, Oh, all wine does not have to be sweet. I actually feel like up until that point in my life, I had been told,
00:08:00.41 Stan Lemon um you know, I'm going to call this Midwest lies. I've been told that Merlot was bad. Cabernet was good. Pinot was meh.
00:08:08.100 Jon Interesting.
00:08:09.92 Stan Lemon Yeah.
00:08:10.29 Jon So I think that there's there's something to this with the whole Malbec becoming popular.
00:08:10.68 Stan Lemon And,
00:08:15.45 Jon um Basically, people wanted to drink wine and they wanted to be unique about it so they don't just order a nice bold CabSaf or a Merlot.
00:08:26.42 Jon Like a Malbec is like, hey, maybe you know something about wine, um but you know, you aren't ordering something that's Grenache forward or whatever.
00:08:36.40 Stan Lemon Grenache Ford.
00:08:36.50 Jon Or Amarone.
00:08:37.05 Stan Lemon Yeah, i'm not sure how many um
00:08:41.93 Stan Lemon I'm not sure how many people know those grapes. But um i I think there's an aspect too like it was it was the unknown.
00:08:43.100 Jon Correct.
00:08:48.53 Stan Lemon I also just think that a, a we'll say, decent Moldek is going to have a a more diverse flavor profile than most American Cabernet Sauvignons.
00:09:00.41 Jon Most, that's probably fair.
00:09:02.90 Stan Lemon Yeah, we're operating in generalizations, you know, and and I like to operate in nuance and specificity as we'll get to with the pies.
00:09:03.19 Jon um
00:09:10.30 Stan Lemon But, um you know, in in the realm of wine, and the role of wine, what say is like Cabernet Sauvignon, that's the Miller Lite of wine, right? California Cab Sav, that's too far. I went too far. All right.
00:09:24.29 Jon I don't think like Cab Sav is kind of a big, bold flavor. So I don't know that a lot of people who don't regular drink wine would gravitate towards it.
00:09:34.55 Stan Lemon Really? I feel like that's that's the default, man. You walk into a restaurant around here, they got six cab salves, all from California. They all taste exactly like the same. And if you're lucky, you've got one pinot from Oregon.
00:09:48.89 Jon Fair enough.
00:09:48.98 Stan Lemon Right? All right, all right.
00:09:49.81 Jon Again, you go out of the house more than I do. so
00:09:53.69 Stan Lemon I am increasingly disappointed by wine when I when i go out to eat. All right.
00:09:57.49 Jon Right.
00:09:58.20 Stan Lemon Okay, Jonathan. um so let's Let's talk about some other ah ill-informed opinions held by listeners of the podcast. ah we First of all, i i want to I want to thank everyone who wrote in emotionally wounded by my chocolate pie take. Your bravery will be remembered.
00:10:21.59 Stan Lemon There is nothing in this world that brings people together like dessert taxonomy and righteous indignation. um Also, just just remember that if this episode auto-downloads, you are part of the problem.
00:10:35.19 Stan Lemon but But I appreciate your bravery. I appreciate your bravery. All
00:10:40.41 Jon ah so my my co-workers have found out that I have a podcast which I'm hoping doesn't end up with me and HR because of something that you say
00:10:42.32 Stan Lemon right. you
00:10:48.82 Stan Lemon ah Well, I mean, hey, there'll be a recording. So there's that. um Do you want to read this email? First of all, I'm i'm ecstatic that we got an email at at podcast at twistoflovenpod.com. It's also good just to know that that email address works. Here here we are years later and it's it's functioning. So props on that front.
00:11:10.65 Stan Lemon Do you want to read this or do you want me to? Because I'll i'll probably i probably do voices if I read it.
00:11:14.71 Jon You go ahead and read the read the email.
00:11:17.66 Stan Lemon All right. All right. We'll see. This can this is this where you get in trouble. To whom it may concern, I was slightly offended when Stanley, just to be clear, no one calls me Stanley, but Jonathan, my wife, and my mother, right?
00:11:32.57 Stan Lemon and And there are qualifications to use that name, but I'm i'm going to let this slide because, you know, I assume you're new to the Twistedverse.
00:11:39.90 Jon And I probably called you Stanley on the podcast.
00:11:41.97 Stan Lemon Yeah, you do. You do. You do. I got a funny story about that. Just to to derail here for a second. So I walked into Pilates class at the local fitness center, as as one does. And was
00:11:52.63 Jon As you do.
00:11:53.53 Stan Lemon as as as one does. And the the instructor is like, oh, are you Stanley? And and I said to her, like, look, um only my wife and my mother call me that when I'm in trouble or my best friend when he needs to get my attention. Right. So ah um I was like, with all due respect, ma'am, you have not joined that club yet.
00:12:11.70 Stan Lemon And so she goes, OK, well, what's what's your name? I said, Stan. She's calling me I'll fine. right. Sorry. I go back to this now. I was slightly offended when Stanley claimed that chocolate pie was basically chocolate cake in the bonus pie episode.
00:12:27.77 Stan Lemon then Then she proceeds to give some definitions here. So chocolate pie, a pie with a pastry crust filled with a chocolate-based custard pudding or mousse, grate with whipped cream on top.
00:12:40.66 Stan Lemon Then there's another definition here which says chocolate cake, a baked dessert made from a batter containing flour, eggs, some type of oil or butter, and cocoa or chocolate. Sometimes aspires to be frosted.
00:12:56.41 Stan Lemon Each deserves to live peacefully in their own spotlight. Warmest regards. And then this individual signs a new twisty, which we have to talk about, but we're going to save that one for later.
00:13:07.74 Stan Lemon I read this like 13 times to make sure that I was understanding what I was looking at. Okay. So and Jonathan, I want you to know that today i assembled a a group of individuals, we'll call it a research group, a panel, we'll call it a panel. I assembled a panel of 12 human beings.
00:13:30.78 Stan Lemon They all had pulses. They were a diverse group of, pulses are important.
00:13:33.51 Jon pulses are important.
00:13:35.65 Stan Lemon They were diverse group of different nationalities, different genders, probably different religions, though I did not ask them. um And I asked them all if they had ever had chocolate pie.
00:13:48.86 Stan Lemon Okay. These individuals are scattered across the United States. Some of them have not always lived in the United States. So they, I'm talking about like, this is a truly diverse panel. Nielsen would love to have this panel.
00:14:01.19 Stan Lemon Okay. Not to mention, these are all smart people. All
00:14:05.18 Jon who all work with you.
00:14:08.37 Stan Lemon Details. Details. And not one of them admitted to having chocolate pie. Not a single soul. So by virtue of that, I'd like to just point out that if you can't find people who have had chocolate pie, chocolate pie might not be real.
00:14:30.52 Jon Okay. Have they had whatever you would classify that chocolate pie-like dessert that they have at Thanksgiving in some Midwestern homes?
00:14:38.68 Stan Lemon No, no.
00:14:39.45 Jon Okay.
00:14:39.94 Stan Lemon I'm telling you, I got blank stares. Then I asked them, like oh, you know have you ever had a brownie? They're like, oh yeah, I've had a brownie. I know what a brownie is. Is a chocolate pie a brownie? And I said, well, that's that's a discussion that I think I need to have right amongst other things.
00:14:52.82 Stan Lemon So and you know I then proceeded to scour the internet, as one does, looking for recipes for chocolate pie. And I found some interesting things that I'd i'd like to discuss with you.
00:15:03.76 Stan Lemon i believe you also sourced a chocolate pie recipe.
00:15:07.51 Jon At your request, i got the one from my mother, which looks like it was probably my grandma's recipe.
00:15:15.10 Stan Lemon Okay. Okay.
00:15:16.44 Jon So I have had this chocolate pie.
00:15:16.57 Stan Lemon Have you had this chocolate pie? Like, do you know if you've had this chocolate pie?
00:15:21.72 Stan Lemon Okay.
00:15:21.78 Jon It has been at least 12 years, but I have had this chocolate pie.
00:15:27.58 Stan Lemon So, so Jonathan, the last time that we talked, I believe you said you were not like necessarily a fan of the chocolate pie.
00:15:35.81 Jon Correct. There are better pies to be eaten.
00:15:37.18 Stan Lemon Okay. Okay. Did your, did, but did your grandma make what you would classify as a good chocolate pie?
00:15:47.18 Jon I would say probably not.
00:15:50.21 Stan Lemon Okay. All right. That's fair.
00:15:52.29 Jon Her pie crust is amazing. um
00:15:54.40 Stan Lemon well We'll get to that because there's some inflammatory material in this email from your colleagues. um I want to just offer two additional data points here. So America's Test Kitchen does have a chocolate cream pie recipe. Okay.
00:16:09.06 Stan Lemon So there's that. um Alton Brown has a dairy-free, moo-less chocolate pie recipe, which which tells me that Alton Brown doesn't believe chocolate pie is real.
00:16:20.43 Jon Okay.
00:16:20.55 Stan Lemon Okay? Because if if he believed it was real, he would not have, well, he would have strong, and he also would not have, like, Alton Brown does not release recipes that are, like, dairy-free or gluten-free if he's serious about the thing.
00:16:23.43 Jon He would have stronger takes on us, yeah.
00:16:33.30 Stan Lemon Like, he treats the thing respectfully, right, in its place that as it's defined. he doesn't go, like, messing around with it. But, you know, again, top hit Google, which, you know, source for all truth in the universe.
00:16:46.34 Stan Lemon Alton Brown chocolate pie, dairy-free Moolah chocolate pie recipe.
00:16:46.50 Jon For now.
00:16:49.21 Stan Lemon So there's that. now um
00:16:51.49 Jon So they do have good SEO as chocolate pie.
00:16:54.24 Stan Lemon Yeah. Now I'd love to read to you the America's Test Kitchen a recipe. However, I canceled my subscription years ago when the guy who did the podcast left and started his own thing, milk milks something or another.
00:17:06.85 Stan Lemon um So I can't. But there are some other recipes on the internet that I thought I could share.
00:17:09.14 Jon Yeah.
00:17:11.84 Stan Lemon So here, let me find...
00:17:12.28 Jon Okay.
00:17:17.43 Stan Lemon Oh man, recipes on the internet are So first of all, most of these define themselves by either pudding or they add flour, okay?
00:17:26.19 Jon Okay.
00:17:26.40 Stan Lemon ah And if they add flour, there's there's a wide range. I think one of the ones I looked at had five tablespoons, but those that are doing the pudding, right? It's it's all milk and eggs and a whole lot of sugar.
00:17:38.46 Stan Lemon Got it, that's a pudding, right?
00:17:40.40 Jon Okay.
00:17:41.31 Stan Lemon And then the other side, once they start incorporating The flour, I'm pretty sure that what it actually is, is a brownie in a pie crust. Okay?
00:17:52.03 Stan Lemon So if, yeah this is my hot take here. If your chocolate pie recipe involves flour, you're not even making a normal chocolate pie by definition. Okay?
00:18:04.77 Stan Lemon You are in fact making a brownie in a pie tin, which means that your brownie is not good enough that people would like it on its own. Okay. And here, let let me, let me clarify a little further because what is the best part of the brownie, Jonathan?
00:18:17.98 Jon All of it?
00:18:19.45 Stan Lemon No, no. Okay. There's man.
00:18:20.70 Jon ah
00:18:21.89 Stan Lemon I was really hoping you'd say something like the ice cream on top. No, he goes all it No, think about it. Like the crust, the edges, right? Everybody wants an edge piece. Nobody wants the middle brownie until there's no edges left.
00:18:33.00 Stan Lemon Right. How many times have you opened up a brownie pan and
00:18:34.28 Jon I also don't know if this is true, but carry on.
00:18:36.41 Stan Lemon oh Come on, how many times have you opened a brownie pan and only the centerpieces are left? Okay? You know why?
00:18:42.33 Jon My guess would be never, but.
00:18:43.93 Stan Lemon People, oh, every time. People love texture. So they eat the edges first. In fact, one time, my wife, who goes to a Dungeons & Dragons thing here in in Indianapolis, I think that's a role-playing game. Anyhow, so she comes back because one of the other like dungeon warlords or whatever, probably a, a you know,
00:19:08.89 Stan Lemon warmongering bard, ah works at a bakery and came back with just the edge pieces, right?
00:19:15.61 Jon Nice.
00:19:16.16 Stan Lemon I felt like I won the freaking lottery that day, right? I had a bunch of premium high-grade quality brownie edges in a bag, right? Now, had she brought home a slice of chocolate pie, i would have been like, meh.
00:19:33.19 Jon Interesting. Okay.
00:19:34.65 Stan Lemon right, I asserted that chocolate pie is a cake. um I am, you know, it's it's not... ah
00:19:42.27 Jon so There is like a pretty big distinction here, though, right? Because are we talking about chocolate pudding pie, or are we talking about a flowered chocolate pie?
00:19:52.09 Stan Lemon Well, so this this is one of the things that I've discovered while scouring the internet. Some people will call a chocolate pie with flour just a chocolate pie. Some people will call a chocolate pudding pie with a chocolate pie and there's no flour.
00:20:04.17 Jon Yeah.
00:20:04.77 Stan Lemon Right. And so, so what I realized from last week, and again, I'm, you know, I am a big enough person to stand here and tell you that my assertion that chocolate pie is a cake might be wrong because it lacks the proper nuance.
00:20:18.43 Stan Lemon Right. Uh, and in this particular situation, what I would say is if your chocolate pie involves flour, you have crossed the Rubicon into cake territory. you know who you are, right? If you're listening right now and you're putting flour in your chocolate pie, you're part of the problem.
00:20:34.21 Stan Lemon Now, some of you are going to put in cornstarch and you're going to act like it doesn't make it a cake because it's cornstarch, not not flour, right? and And technically, technically you're right because cornstarch is not flour.
00:20:47.97 Stan Lemon But the purpose of cornstarch is to take something pudding-like and to shift it all the way over to the consistency of a cake. Okay? Cornstarch solidifies pudding in such a way that I don't believe with the right amount. Like if you just put a dash in, you're just going get a slightly thicker pudding. But I'm telling you, I'm looking at the recipes today.
00:21:10.01 Stan Lemon The amount of cornstarch that people are putting into their chocolate pies in North America make those pies a cake.
00:21:17.08 Jon Okay.
00:21:17.77 Stan Lemon Okay?
00:21:21.34 Jon Does like French silk pie fall into one of these territories?
00:21:25.29 Stan Lemon I think that's a different ball of wax, man. i' like what French silk is its own beast, right?
00:21:27.22 Jon Okay.
00:21:29.53 Stan Lemon This is like this is trying to distinguish between a hot dog and a sandwich when we're talking about like pie and cake.
00:21:30.62 Jon Okay.
00:21:35.99 Stan Lemon But when you get into French silk pie, like I think that's actually a respectable pie, right?
00:21:39.61 Jon Okay.
00:21:39.83 Stan Lemon There's art and craft going on there.
00:21:44.29 Stan Lemon Okay. Okay.
00:21:45.15 Jon That's an interesting take, but keep going.
00:21:48.01 Stan Lemon Oh, don't hate on the French slug pie. Okay. So yeah here's here's the thing too. Here's why I would say French slug pie is its own beast. but You take a pudding, you add cornstarch.
00:21:58.11 Stan Lemon It thickens up, right?
00:21:59.70 Jon Yep.
00:21:59.91 Stan Lemon When you when you do that with pudding, you are no longer worried about when you cut into this pie it falling apart, right?
00:22:05.38 Jon Yep.
00:22:06.89 Stan Lemon And the thing that separates the the adults from the children, um the men from the boys, the women from the girls, when it comes to pie making, is when you cut into that sucker and you pull a slice out,
00:22:19.27 Stan Lemon does it hold together? Right? And so cornstarch, because chocolate pie is a a joke, right? Cornstarch cheats on the main thing on pie craftsmanship.
00:22:34.25 Jon Okay.
00:22:35.22 Stan Lemon right? Now, let's shift over to the French silk pie. what is what What would you describe as the distinctive factor, the distinctive attribute of a French silk pie?
00:22:47.46 Jon The curly chocolate thing's on top.
00:22:50.79 Stan Lemon Oh, sweet cheese. All right. No, Jonathan. It's the lighter, airier chocolate pie, right? Like it it's got, it has body with also not being dense, right? And that's that's hard to pull off in a structured manner.
00:23:02.89 Jon That was the answer you expected me to give?
00:23:06.89 Stan Lemon Of course, Jonathan.
00:23:07.27 Jon Sorry, man.
00:23:08.42 Stan Lemon I feel like i did I did all this research.
00:23:08.55 Jon I think you care about these things more than I do.
00:23:11.74 Stan Lemon I was so ready to have this conversation.
00:23:12.42 Jon Okay. Okay.
00:23:16.71 Stan Lemon All right, um this is this is kind of where where i've I've landed. French silk pie, separate thing, right? You add flour, it becomes a cake in a pie, right?
00:23:27.82 Stan Lemon Crust, in a pie crust. um Chocolate pie, there's a, like, there's a, pudding pie is a real thing, and chocolate pudding in a pie, I will accept, is not a cake, right? Now, I'm not gonna sit here and endorse it as a pie, but I'm gonna i'm gonna acknowledge the mistake that I made last week in associating that all chocolate pies are cake because there's, there's some that are not, there's some that are, you know, pudding. John, did I resolve it? Are we, are we, are we good?
00:23:57.25 Jon Time will tell. um i don't know. I think that you did thorough thorough research. um And I think that you're backstepping on calling all chocolate pie cake is probably a good move.
00:24:10.77 Jon ah We are still left wondering what does that make a chocolate pie-like dessert?
00:24:18.70 Stan Lemon I mean, i think it's just that you had too many ingredients left in the fridge. You were going to a dinner party and you had to close the gap.
00:24:24.01 Jon It's like a frozen dairy treat or something like that.
00:24:27.48 Stan Lemon No, I mean, again, like, yeah God bless her. i love I love my wife to death, but she used to make this thing. It was like ice cream, rice crispy or whatever. And really what she did is she mashed the heck out of ice cream into ah ah cake pan, right? With some rice crispies, like mashed in there too, sprinkled coconut on it and call that dessert. And it was, don't get me wrong. Like, here's the thing.
00:24:49.25 Stan Lemon It's tasty, right? I ate it. i ate like more than my fair share of it. But is that a like a, is that a respectable dessert? I don't know. It closed the gap. It met a need.
00:24:59.92 Stan Lemon You know? But I just, i don't know. I'm not going to sit here and like tell you that's a cake for crying out just because it's in a cake pan.
00:25:04.96 Jon Okay.
00:25:08.25 Stan Lemon That'd be insane. but and Here's the thing, right? So if if my opinions on chocolate pie or chocolate cake offend you, good news. Next week, we're going rank desserts by whether they deserve civil rights.
00:25:21.23 Stan Lemon Okay? Now, send more emails. They fuel us. i I'm not going to be apologizing.
00:25:26.41 Jon Mostly Stan. I really don't have a strong take on this. like If it's there, I'll eat it. Yeah.
00:25:34.61 Stan Lemon All right, there's there's like there's a couple of other things we need to address in this this steam email.
00:25:38.35 Jon Well, first, for whatever stupid things that Stan said this episode, please write to us about them at podcast at twistoflemonpod.com. Special shout out to Emily and Rebecca, my coworkers, who have dubbed themselves the Twisties.
00:25:56.06 Stan Lemon We're going to get there. We're to there. i'm i'm not done talking with these.
00:25:57.26 Jon Oh, you're going to skip over this?
00:25:58.26 Stan Lemon Yeah. No, I got two other bones to pick with these two, right? Emily and Rebecca, dial in because I got i got a couple of important things here. So first of all, they did defined a po a chocolate pie as a pie with a pastry crust.
00:26:10.61 Stan Lemon So I ask you, Jonathan, do pies have to have a pastry crust?
00:26:16.85 Jon I would say no, and I think you agree with me on this one.
00:26:18.86 Stan Lemon I do agree with you. I think the graham cracker crust is an amazing thing. I think the Oreo crust is an abomination, but that's a different topic for a different time. The...
00:26:26.35 Jon Which is interesting because you love Oreos.
00:26:28.59 Stan Lemon I love Oreos. Oreos are great. Oreos should be eaten regularly and with prejudice, but I do not believe that they should be crumbled up and turned into a crust unless it's ice cream and then it's not a pie or a cake either.
00:26:39.82 Stan Lemon right I'm sorry, Dairy Queen, you're wrong on that one.
00:26:40.86 Jon Okay.
00:26:42.06 Stan Lemon But but here's the thing. so So pastry crust, I think that narrows the field far, far too much. okay I give a lot of room for the graham cracker crust. I do have a problem with the name graham cracker.
00:26:55.69 Stan Lemon right? Because it's not a cracker. I'm sorry. gra like Graham cracker is a cookie. it Yes, it looks like a club cracker. Nabisco, yeah you know, is probably making... I don't even know if...
00:27:08.59 Stan Lemon A bunch of people make graham crackers, but Nabisco is making a fortune off of everybody probably paying royalties to the club cracker for appearances. right every I'm sure that every graham, this is probably part of Big Cookie in America. Every company out there making graham crackers is probably paying Nabisco for royalties on the look and appearances of a club cracker.
00:27:32.85 Jon Way to go, marketers.
00:27:34.25 Stan Lemon Way to go, Marcus. That's, I mean, i want to be in that. um just Just one last bit. I also noticed that your colleagues did not broach the subject of torts.
00:27:45.52 Jon We did off in my own little conversations. First, um I believe that the original comment was like graham cracker crust versus pastry crust is an entirely different conversation than pie versus cake. And I think we did make that distinction here in this episode.
00:28:04.24 Stan Lemon We did, but here's the thing. If they define pie with pastry crust, they make it part of the conversation. Okay? Because I believe, so here's this is the this is the bottom line. Their definition of pie, of chocolate pie, is fundamentally wrong because they have narrowed the playing field to pastry crusts. Right? So I'm just going to put it out there. Their definition is not reputable.
00:28:27.04 Jon I don't think that they did as much research before sending the email as you did before responding to the email. So give it time, Stan. um And then your question was about chocolate tort.
00:28:34.60 Stan Lemon All right, right.
00:28:39.30 Stan Lemon Yeah, the tort. well They did not bother to classify tort as tort pie or as tort cake or as tort as its own thing.
00:28:45.15 Jon So my question is, what happens if it ends up being neither pie nor cake? Is it a chocolate tart or a chocolate tort?
00:28:55.95 Stan Lemon wait, wait, wait, I don't know that I can actually articulate the difference between a tart and a tort.
00:29:00.99 Jon Neither can I. So um it seems like we didn't get any response there.
00:29:02.59 Stan Lemon ah
00:29:06.87 Jon But basically my advice was to at this point, the only thing I can do is to double down and then laugh at you when you get too involved.
00:29:17.66 Jon So that's true.
00:29:18.67 Stan Lemon I'm always too involved. um Okay. let me Let me ask you one other one i clarifying here. Does all cake have to be baked?
00:29:27.54 Jon Does all cake have to be baked?
00:29:30.75 Jon think I'm going to go with yes here.
00:29:33.35 Stan Lemon Why?
00:29:35.20 Jon I mean, i don't love cake to begin with, but as I'm thinking of things, a counterargument doesn't come to mind immediately.
00:29:43.43 Stan Lemon So, so you don't believe that a cake is defined by its shape or delivery mechanism or the implement by which you use it. Actually, that's a whole other question. Do you spoon or, or fork?
00:29:52.83 Jon Like, if you just bake something in a cake pan, does it make it a cake? Like, if I make a meatloaf in a cake pan, is it a cake?
00:29:59.07 Stan Lemon No, no, no. You know, a meatloaf is not a cake, right? I know i know where you're going with this A meatloaf is not a cake. Um, a meatloaf is more, more akin to a meat pie than it is a, a meat cake, just to be clear.
00:30:11.27 Stan Lemon Um, So i here's here's here's here's why i I latched onto this. I wonder if the same rules apply to cookies, okay? Does a cookie have to be baked in order to be a cookie? Because Mrs. Lemon makes one heck of a banging no-bake cookie, right?
00:30:30.24 Stan Lemon And to be honest with you, oh, it's disgusting.
00:30:30.29 Jon I've not had this. i have not had this. I've not had the cheesecake. I mean, we just need a wine and dessert visit when I come one of these times.
00:30:37.41 Stan Lemon That would be great, Jonathan. I'm always here. I'm always here and available. The mic is hot. i the the The thing, though, is like I'm not sure that baking is required to make a cake. I think that is, again, slightly myopic. Emily and Rebecca, if you're if you're listening, I did read your email. Myopic is the word I'm going to use.
00:30:55.68 Stan Lemon Um, so, uh, nonetheless, I, we're not gonna answer that today, but this, this is the thing that has been on my mind since I read this email contemplating all day, right. And and all night, this email came yesterday, near the close of business.
00:31:11.68 Stan Lemon Uh, and, and I've, I've been constantly thinking like, does a cake have to be baked?
00:31:16.45 Jon Okay.
00:31:17.06 Stan Lemon Now I'm going to, I,
00:31:18.43 Jon have Have you ended up anywhere yet?
00:31:20.74 Stan Lemon No, in fact, so here here's the thing I was going to, like part of my progression of thought was what about a baked Alaska? right? Now it's it's like baked for a hot minute, like literally a hot minute, right?
00:31:31.80 Stan Lemon ah
00:31:32.07 Jon right.
00:31:33.09 Stan Lemon But it that is very much a cold cake. And so I think there's room for cold cake. Is is baked is baked a requisite, even if it's just for a minute?
00:31:38.06 Jon Sure.
00:31:41.68 Stan Lemon And then I went back to Mrs. Lemon's no-baked cookies, not baked, but the ingredients are definitely heated up, right? So is heat a qualifier? Does it matter if heat is applied through baking or or some other method? I don't know.
00:31:54.63 Stan Lemon The journey will continue, Jonathan. We we will have to find out.
00:31:58.77 Jon All right.
00:32:00.39 Stan Lemon Okay. All right. Now,
00:32:01.54 Jon I feel like I don't have strong opinions on this either. um Basically, does it taste good or not? Which is kind of odd because generally, like i think arguing over semantics is worth it because words mean things. um But in this case, I just don't know if it's worth my energy.
00:32:18.02 Stan Lemon you always say that and then you back down like this podcast.
00:32:18.44 Jon did rage bait.
00:32:20.38 Stan Lemon is Okay. Hold on. yeah Did you, did you see what the Oxford university press word of the year was?
00:32:25.25 Jon i did rage bait
00:32:27.26 Stan Lemon Rage bait. Okay. So this podcast could could possibly be described as man with no opinion, man reacting to rage bait. Or man rage baiting.
00:32:36.93 Jon Or are you the one who's providing the rage bait?
00:32:40.43 Stan Lemon Maybe both. Maybe both. both. both um Yeah. All right.
00:32:46.79 Jon I have strong opinions on very few things, and I would generally classify them as strong opinions weakly held. um So you can convince me to change my mind, but you have to convince me.
00:32:59.59 Stan Lemon Oh, see, I have weak opinions strongly held. So that's, that's, that's probably part of my problem.
00:33:02.21 Jon Yes. ah
00:33:05.76 Stan Lemon Okay. So last thing in this email, and I really do appreciate the email. Like I, I appreciate people reaching out like this fueled my fire. Um, this, this was, we have listeners yeah in there too.
00:33:13.53 Jon We have listeners in era two.
00:33:16.93 Stan Lemon Um,
00:33:19.68 Stan Lemon Emily signs the email, a new twisty. And so this, this is what took me a second. Right. So I was like twisty, like a twisty tie for like a garbage bag. And I was like, why is she signing a new twisty?
00:33:31.97 Stan Lemon right. So Swifty, obviously. and And I, I never thought of anybody listening to our podcast besides Danchez. Um, Let alone, like not even when my mom listens, right?
00:33:44.61 Stan Lemon But, you know, my mom, oh yeah.
00:33:45.76 Jon I think my dad listens.
00:33:47.67 Stan Lemon Well, hey, hey, Mr.
00:33:48.05 Jon I'm sure Mark listens, but I don't know if he would admit it.
00:33:49.70 Stan Lemon Gullmire. No, he would never admit it.
00:33:50.60 Jon So...
00:33:51.30 Stan Lemon There's not, ah there's not chance in high heaven. um My dad made his memory be eternal. I think he listened to a couple of episodes. My mother um still to this day, she's like, wait, you have a podcast? I was like, yeah, yeah, mom Yeah, yeah.
00:34:02.52 Jon Episode 175.
00:34:03.10 Stan Lemon 175 episodes. Yeah. So what do you talk about? and I have like milkshakes. That's what I always say when people are like, what do what do
00:34:08.47 Jon Oh, this is another great topic for discussion is what do you what do you say when people ask what the podcast is about?
00:34:14.15 Stan Lemon Yeah, it's milkshakes. I always say milkshakes. And they're like, huh? And it sounds sketchy. This is a podcast about milkshakes when we talk about some other stuff. um So how did you feel? but like did First of all, did they deliver this definition, this word in person?
00:34:29.04 Stan Lemon Or did you see this in the email first?
00:34:29.94 Jon Um, they came up with this while I was in the room, um, because apparently other big podcasts like have names for their fan clubs or listenership.
00:34:40.23 Jon Um, the big one being Taylor Swift's fiance and his brother, the football players, you'll know their names. I don't, um, yeah, so they do a podcast and there's something like the 98 percenters or something like that is the name of their fan base.
00:34:46.27 Stan Lemon like The Kelsey brothers. Yeah.
00:34:55.46 Stan Lemon I don't even know what that is a reference to.
00:34:58.80 Jon Neither do I.
00:34:58.82 Stan Lemon I feel like I should. Okay. I'll have to look that up.
00:35:02.24 Jon 98 may be wrong too, you but it's 90 something.
00:35:05.83 Stan Lemon Okay. I'm going to Google. I'm to Google this, but I, um, that's That's fascinating. So are there other podcasts besides the Kelsey brothers? Because I feel like the the Kelsey brothers are super niche.
00:35:18.46 Jon Right. um I feel like um the one Kelsey's wife probably has one. And then the other podcast that is mentioned is Amy Poehler's podcast. So that would be the other one to see um if they have names for their fans.
00:35:33.27 Jon 92
00:35:34.63 Stan Lemon Okay, it's 92 percenters. It's derived from Jason Kelsey's reference to the Philadelphia Eagles near perfect success rate with the short yardage quarterback sneak play, which became a symbol of their high achieving fan base.
00:35:37.28 Jon percenters.
00:35:47.23 Jon There you go.
00:35:48.20 Stan Lemon All right, that's super interesting.
00:35:48.67 Jon you What are your thoughts on the Eagles?
00:35:52.68 Stan Lemon Uh, I mean, they're in the wrong conference, so I don't generally think about them.
00:35:56.62 Jon don't care.
00:35:57.83 Stan Lemon Um, in the event that the Steelers play them, I hope the Steelers completely pulverize them.
00:35:57.96 Jon Okay.
00:36:04.26 Stan Lemon Um, yeah, in, in a Superbowl, I would root for the Eagles if they were playing the Ravens, if they were playing the Bengals, which they never would be, if they were playing the Browns, which they absolutely will never be.
00:36:04.70 Jon As you do with everyone whom the Steelers play. Okay.
00:36:16.94 Stan Lemon If they're playing the Raiders, um, That's probably it. So
00:36:23.41 Jon Okay. So in the room, other ones that were thrown around were the Lemonheads. um I feel like there was one more, but now it escapes to my mind. But we landed on the Twisties as an ode to Taylor Swift, who was born in the same year as me.
00:36:38.43 Stan Lemon I appreciate that. I genuinely do like I'm going embrace it. I think ah if if we can get if we can get more listeners back on to the podcast, we should consider making new stickers and we could use that as a theme.
00:36:51.49 Jon I will say that both Emily and Rebecca have received a original Life with a Twist of Lemon sticker.
00:36:56.63 Stan Lemon Ooh, yeah. I still have some of those floating around. So, right. Well, Emily, Rebecca, thank you. i appreciate your uninformed opinions and I look forward to your next email.
00:37:08.61 Jon Now that we have a fan club, um apparently you can win Golden Globes for a podcast. Did you see this?
00:37:16.29 Stan Lemon I did, but I don't understand why this matters. First of all, who who watches the Golden Globes?
00:37:19.38 Jon I don't think anybody does, but wouldn't it be cool to have a Golden Globe?
00:37:23.11 Stan Lemon Yeah, yeah, it would be a be super cool.
00:37:23.43 Jon um
00:37:24.55 Stan Lemon Who watches the Golden Globes though?
00:37:26.53 Jon The families of the people who have been nominated?
00:37:30.63 Stan Lemon You cannot possibly tell me that when this airs on CBS, that they're going to actually do the Golden Globe for podcasts on air.
00:37:38.88 Jon Does seem unlikely when you say it like that, but it would be cool.
00:37:40.28 Stan Lemon Yeah, it does. okay All right. Did you look at the full list? Because I found this to be a little bit ridiculous.
00:37:44.60 Jon I looked at the list and I don't know the majority of them because I haven't been listening to podcasts, but you know.
00:37:50.59 Stan Lemon So I don't know, like there were 25 podcasts that were eligible, but they don't list. I don't i don't see any eligibility criteria here. Right.
00:37:57.71 Jon Right.
00:37:58.43 Stan Lemon It was determined by the globe's data partner, Luminate, the entertainment industry's leading authority on audio analytics and insights. How? Why? What do they have?
00:38:06.56 Jon Right. What are they measuring?
00:38:07.29 Stan Lemon Yeah.
00:38:07.92 Jon Are they measuring listening time, subscribers, downloads?
00:38:07.99 Stan Lemon Right. Right.
00:38:11.24 Jon Like, we don't know.
00:38:12.22 Stan Lemon so So they then proceed to list the 25, which they very specifically say in alphabetical order. And the reason they say in alphabetical order is because the first one is ABC News. This is on the CBS website, right?
00:38:23.96 Stan Lemon Second one, CBS News. You got to be thinking like, CBS and ABC, ABC was 2020, CBS was 48 Hours. These are both TV shows. They they probably, i want I want to believe in my heart of hearts that 48 Hours came out first. i don't I don't know if it did or not. And ABC was like, hey, we're going to get you in the natural sort algorithm by being 2020. Playing the
00:38:47.10 Jon Playing the long game. I like it.
00:38:48.36 Stan Lemon long game. All right. ah i did like How many of these did you know? Because Dateline and NBC, again, like I don't think these count. If your podcast is just a rip of your TV show,
00:38:56.32 Jon Yeah, like most of these I didn't know were podcasts. So there's that. Looking at ones I've heard of but have not listened to really. Our Caller Daddy.
00:39:06.97 Jon Good Hang with Amy Poehler.
00:39:09.54 Jon Pod Save America I've heard of. I've never listened to.
00:39:13.45 Stan Lemon Is that it, Jonathan?
00:39:14.57 Jon No, like I've heard of the Joe Rogan experience. Ben Shapiro. Name sounds familiar.
00:39:21.64 Stan Lemon So, yeah, you would you would know you know the Ben Shapiro show, I think.
00:39:21.91 Jon But yeah.
00:39:24.52 Stan Lemon um Pod Save America, definitely listen to. i not Not regularly. None of these are shows that I listen to. um Tucker Carlson, I know he exists.
00:39:34.96 Stan Lemon ah Up First.
00:39:35.44 Jon Again, didn't know he was in the podcast game.
00:39:38.67 Stan Lemon Everybody's in the podcast game. now even Even John Kohlmeier is in the podcast game. um up Up First from NPR is the only one that I've ever subscribed to on this list. And, ah you know, I know who Joe Rogan is.
00:39:47.18 Jon Okay.
00:39:50.02 Stan Lemon i Maybe I subscribe to The Daily.
00:39:50.60 Jon Yep.
00:39:52.39 Stan Lemon But I know who Bill Simmons is. This list is weird, though. You've got a balance of... um news shows and like comedy interview shows, it's they like, I feel like this needs some more qualification and there's a overabundance of, we'll say, ah conservative people, conservative shows on this, right?
00:40:04.05 Jon Interview shows, yeah.
00:40:17.53 Stan Lemon So this is, i don't know, it's like the news and conservative talk show hosts. That doesn't seem, that doesn't seem balanced.
00:40:21.93 Jon Yes. It doesn't seem like what people are actually listening to either.
00:40:26.67 Stan Lemon i Well, that I would love to know. Like I know Joe Rogan, like people listen to Joe Rogan, but like, I don't know.
00:40:31.10 Jon Right.
00:40:32.85 Stan Lemon Pat McAfee, is he not on here? And the the only thing i can think of is some of these folks, well, actually some of these shows are, they're actually just YouTube channels masquerading as podcasts too. That's the thing I'll say about the Kelsey brothers for what it's worth. I mean, I genuinely enjoy watching them, but the key there is I watch them. I watch them on YouTube. The fact that they appear as podcasts on your various channels, I think is an accidental to the fact that they're they're really,
00:40:57.18 Stan Lemon they're really a a show that you watch.
00:40:58.77 Jon youtube YouTube channel. yeah
00:40:59.66 Stan Lemon Yeah. With a bunch of Instagram clips. Right. And that's not to like diminish what they're doing, but I'm not really sure that if I was going to do a golden globes for podcasts, that that's where I would go. I would, I would probably pick like truly pure podcasts and I don't listen to Mark Maron, but he always comes to mind. Like he is legitimately podcast.
00:41:19.17 Stan Lemon I, I'm sure there's probably a live stream of what he's doing, but he's been a podcast forever. I would, I would probably pick on the verge cause I love, i love the verge planet money should probably be on that list.
00:41:28.18 Jon Planet Money, pa
00:41:29.36 Stan Lemon Yeah. There's, um, there's some others from, uh, from Vox, like land of the giants. I really enjoy land of the giants.
00:41:34.04 Jon yep. Is Guy Raz doing anything currently?
00:41:38.06 Stan Lemon Oh, I hope so. hope so.
00:41:39.76 Jon i always think of him as a podcaster.
00:41:40.14 Stan Lemon Um, how, how is, how is the golden globes the first time they're doing podcasts and 99 PI is not on here.
00:41:47.12 Jon Yeah, I'm with you.
00:41:48.08 Stan Lemon You know, like that's, I just think there are some like legitimate full on podcasts. Like that is their principal medium. They are not doing, you know, video and then ripping the audio off of it. That probably should have been on this list. And i don't know.
00:42:03.31 Stan Lemon It's um without, without the qualifications, without like what, what drove.
00:42:07.02 Jon And it doesn't say it doesn't say the criteria.
00:42:11.37 Stan Lemon um What's the, what's the history podcast? Why am I blanking? What's the history podcast I love? Hardcore history with, uh, uh, Dan Carlin. Like, how is that not on this list? Right.
00:42:24.40 Stan Lemon Probably hasn't released episodes since January 3rd. So that, but that might be it. But like, you know, there's, there's, oh man, that's such a good podcast.
00:42:28.23 Jon There we go. There's that. I don't know if people are really into history besides you, but. 99pi, I think, has a vast array of people who listen to it.
00:42:40.08 Stan Lemon Absolutely. they I mean, yeah. And I think that's good storytelling too. So, um,
00:42:44.21 Jon Good production, good everything.
00:42:45.97 Stan Lemon Yeah. I'm curious to see if anyone in the universe cares about this. ah what's What's the other big... war You want a Golden Globe?
00:42:51.98 Jon i want a Golden Globe, Stan.
00:42:54.76 Stan Lemon Okay.
00:42:54.89 Jon You you have patents in your name.
00:42:55.16 Stan Lemon Well...
00:42:56.93 Jon i want a Golden Globe.
00:42:59.50 Stan Lemon Yeah, no nobody cares that I have patents, Jonathan. Nobody's care you have a Golden Globe. um but But you know what for what? Hey, whatever it takes, if you can find out what it takes, I will be there for you, Jonathan.
00:43:10.100 Stan Lemon this is It's funny. On a podcast where most opinions are not held at all by by Jonathan, and my opinions are ridiculous, John cares deeply about having a Golden Globe.
00:43:21.70 Stan Lemon Maybe, Jonathan, a few a few well-formed opinions might get us the Golden Globe. That's what I'm going to pitch for you.
00:43:27.01 Jon All right, that could be another 2026 school um pausing for wine tasting opening up.
00:43:28.49 Stan Lemon Yeah.
00:43:32.80 Jon I believe a chocolate you note has developed.
00:43:38.16 Stan Lemon Would you say um mid-forward on the tongue?
00:43:42.41 Jon I would.
00:43:43.31 Stan Lemon Yeah, mid-forward. It's interesting because usually it's like mid-back you start to get. I feel like in the wines that we had in the Wall Street Journal advent calendar, usually mid-back or we start to get chocolate caramel notes. um This is definitely mid-forward.
00:43:55.24 Stan Lemon it's It feels less fruity. There's a little more tartness, I would say, coming out as well on the very front of the tongue. Um, this is, I like this, like, this is not a bad wine at all.
00:44:07.31 Stan Lemon Um, it, it doesn't, i don't know. I don't think it tastes too young either.
00:44:12.72 Jon I agree. And I think that this would also be um ah wine that lots of different palates could enjoy.
00:44:22.38 Stan Lemon Yeah, absolutely.
00:44:23.33 Jon It's an approachable wine, I think they would say.
00:44:23.63 Stan Lemon Um,
00:44:26.25 Stan Lemon approachable. We'll go with that. All right, Jonathan, I'm going to just look at the tasting notes here. So Aromas, this is in the app, folks, our wine tasting app, which by the way, if you would like to to use, you can reach out to podcast at twistoflemonpod.com.
00:44:40.10 Stan Lemon Let me know.
00:44:40.78 Jon Which we know works now.
00:44:42.32 Stan Lemon We know works.
00:44:42.41 Jon um And that means nobody has asked actually asked you yet.
00:44:42.88 Stan Lemon Yeah.
00:44:45.45 Jon So
00:44:45.81 Stan Lemon Yeah. Just to be clear, this is just for iOS folks. So, you know, if you're, if you're on an Android, yeah.
00:44:48.94 Jon yeah. If you have an iPhone and you ever drink wine, let us know.
00:44:53.17 Stan Lemon Right. Yeah. And if you're not on an iPhone and you write to me to let me know that I should build an app for Android, um i will most likely ignore you or I will tell you to punch sand on the podcast. One of the two.
00:45:05.76 Stan Lemon All right. So just look at the podcast. I'm going to list black fruit. I am going to choose chocolate. I do wonder if the oakiness we got. Oh, here's a taste. Maybe it was clove. do you think it was clove?
00:45:18.43 Stan Lemon That earthiness?
00:45:20.46 Stan Lemon Nah, it wasn't clove.
00:45:21.40 Jon I don't think so.
00:45:21.58 Stan Lemon I just don't necessarily want to mark off the smoke flavor because I don't think it was smoky per se. um Maybe could have been leather.
00:45:27.60 Jon Yeah, haven't gotten smoke.
00:45:30.35 Stan Lemon Do you think that earthy note was leather? I'm going to go with leather.
00:45:32.94 Jon Could have been leather.
00:45:34.84 Stan Lemon I like leather better than than the oak flavor profiles. Definitely dry. going to say the acidity was pretty low, right?
00:45:43.32 Jon So did he as low?
00:45:44.84 Stan Lemon Tannins are low too, I think. Actually, alcohol is low, but it's full-bodied.
00:45:47.10 Jon ten
00:45:49.86 Stan Lemon Okay. Yeah. i you know I'm not mad about that. What are you going rate it, Jonathan?
00:45:55.02 Jon I rated it three and a half stars.
00:45:58.06 Stan Lemon Oh, really? Okay. What would it have taken to make it a four-star for you?
00:46:06.02 Jon um so like right now this is something i would like serve to company it's not something that i would open up if you were visiting
00:46:18.25 Stan Lemon Okay. Is that more about me though? There's about you.
00:46:20.88 Jon i think that ah just like if i'm tasting tasting wine um and really wanting to enjoy it i'm looking for more depth i think like this one was interesting but it didn't have a lot of depth to the flavor profiles
00:46:37.20 Stan Lemon Yeah, I think I agree with you, but I think for the sake of our dear listeners who are probably, I'm going to guess not as whine astute as you are, Jonathan. How would you describe death?
00:46:47.86 Jon um a stack of flavors where each sip you take you're noticing something different it's kind of like when you go back and read through the lord of the rings and you find something new every time
00:46:58.56 Stan Lemon Every single time. Yeah, no i think I think layers, right? Layers of experience on the palate. I do not know what to label this for the winery though, Jonathan. Do you think Bracero is the winery?
00:47:14.28 Jon so maybe
00:47:15.46 Stan Lemon I felt like that was the cuvee.
00:47:17.90 Stan Lemon Inspired by Argentina's traditional, birth I think Bracero is the, probably the cuvee. This is one of the struggles with this particular advent calendar. I do not know what the winery is.
00:47:32.11 Jon I don't really have a back label, which is where it would tell you a lot of these things.
00:47:36.20 Stan Lemon Yeah, we'll have to do some some Google some international researcher.
00:47:37.48 Jon So left it we'll have to send the photo through the robots.
00:47:44.46 Stan Lemon Brucera.
00:47:44.61 Jon Does Apple Foundation's model support that?
00:47:45.27 Stan Lemon What
00:47:48.26 Stan Lemon but do you mean?
00:47:49.83 Jon Like, can we feed a photo into it and say, hey, what winery is this from?
00:47:54.40 Stan Lemon No, the the foundation model actually has no vision support. So um would all it all it will allow is for text. So in the app, what I do for the the scanning is I actually OCR all the text off the image, because there is a vision framework, which you can do that with, right?
00:48:11.52 Jon So
00:48:11.58 Stan Lemon And then from there, I feed all that text into the model and ask it to extract what it thinks is actually you know the the various parts.
00:48:19.36 Jon you need the text.
00:48:21.08 Stan Lemon Yeah, so, you know, this is. Jonathan, I don't see anything on the internet that says what the winery is. I wonder if winery needs to become an optional field on this this application of ours.
00:48:32.77 Jon I guess that there's probably lots of times where grapes will come from different wineries.
00:48:37.80 Stan Lemon Could be, yeah. And this doesn't really list a bottler, which would be my other go-to. So something we'll have to think about and talk to talk to the robots about. But I actually think for what it's worth, I agree with your three-star rating of this one.
00:48:50.52 Stan Lemon think I think that that lines up.
00:48:53.60 Jon But good wine, drinkable.
00:48:55.61 Stan Lemon Yeah, drinkable. Everybody should get some Bracero from Argentina Malbec. Okay. um I wanted to see, did have you been following the news? Did you see the new GPT release?
00:49:05.72 Jon Have I been following the news? um you You told me the new GPT release, and I have actually seen it in my account.
00:49:08.22 Stan Lemon Well, just the AI news.
00:49:16.44 Jon So there's that.
00:49:16.69 Stan Lemon you're I think you'd be referring to 5.2, right?
00:49:19.23 Jon Correct.
00:49:20.59 Stan Lemon not the news I'm talking about.
00:49:21.70 Jon There's new news that I have not seen.
00:49:22.70 Stan Lemon There's new news. there's
00:49:23.46 Jon Not even.
00:49:23.97 Stan Lemon There's the news. I can't get over how fast this, uh, this is moving. So, you know, let's, um, let's recap.
00:49:29.30 Jon Oh, is this the image thing? I saw the image thing.
00:49:30.90 Stan Lemon This is the image thing. This is the image thing.
00:49:31.92 Jon Okay. Okay.
00:49:32.34 Stan Lemon All right. right. So this is fascinating to me because, um, you know, 5.2 was really a play at creatives. So if you read the announcement for the GPT 5.2 model release,
00:49:44.69 Stan Lemon there's an improvement in reasoning, but then the outputs, like the spreadsheet example looks really slick, right? In their announcements. So just getting refined in the things that it is making for you that I will say are not just pure text, right?
00:49:59.68 Jon Yep.
00:50:00.88 Stan Lemon And like, I think that was largely a play at the Opus 4.5 release from Claude. So you can kind of like, you can track what ChatGPT is going to next based upon what's going on. in the market is what I would say. Okay. So, so rewind, uh, son of 3.5 comes out and quad code is around the corner. It's fantastic at coding. What is, what does GPT have to do?
00:50:21.74 Stan Lemon They got to go and they got to up their game with codecs, right? Uh, poaches the whisper team. Um, is it whisper? No, what's the name? Was that the name of the app? Whatever the code ID was, it began with a Oh my gosh, what is it?
00:50:38.82 Stan Lemon AI ai code editor that began with a W. Windsurf, Windsurf. Why could I not remember this? Windsurf. So Google poaches the Windsurf team, right? And um the GPT folks, OpenAI folks go and they make their own variety of model for codecs, right?
00:50:56.84 Stan Lemon So they make a plan of there.
00:50:57.02 Jon Yep.
00:50:58.04 Stan Lemon um We just had the 4.5 Opus release, which is cheaper, better, blah, blah, blah. And GPT swings out with 5.2.
00:51:07.22 Stan Lemon Google has made a huge splash with Nana Banana. So their image generator, I mean like huge splash, right? So OpenAI today releases, ah they don't they don't call it a new model ah because their you know technology for this is behind their router, or their model router. But it's essentially, i think if you read the the full release, there's actually a different model when you call the API to make better images.
00:51:33.82 Jon And they broke it out into its own section in the app.
00:51:37.65 Stan Lemon They did. i You know, there was a place where I could go and see all of my um all of my images before, so i don't I haven't totally picked up on what is different. I guess I just haven't looked at it close enough. but
00:51:49.88 Jon I think it's more of an onboarding sort of splash screen.
00:51:53.85 Stan Lemon Okay.
00:51:54.26 Jon like hey here are all the things you can do or here's the different styles and things of that nature
00:51:54.60 Stan Lemon All right.
00:51:59.22 Stan Lemon Yeah, because once you actually go to, so here's funny thing. If you click on that and you describe an image and you do not say create image, it will just talk to you. So i the first thing I did because this is this how I test image generation, I'm like, hey, create me a starship with the from the Star Trek universe with the saucer section of the Enterprise-D, the star drive section of the USS Excelsior, and then the nacelles and pylons of the Enterprise-D era a sovereign class starship, right?
00:52:27.48 Stan Lemon Um, nobody has, nobody has nailed this yet, by the way, just to be clear.
00:52:28.44 Jon and
00:52:32.15 Stan Lemon But, uh, I typed this in, I type this in, it comes back. That's a real chimera of a, of a starship. And then proceeds to define other schematics that might be relevant to the ship.
00:52:42.24 Stan Lemon I'm like, no, I wanted a picture.
00:52:43.29 Jon oh Make it for me.
00:52:45.85 Stan Lemon Yeah. Make it for me.
00:52:46.13 Jon Build it. We want at least warp seven.
00:52:47.64 Stan Lemon But that's, that's literally, it's literally from the prompt that says, describe an image. I described an image, I guess. So, you know, there's some kinks that'd be worked out for sure. Um, But they've done a good job of like taking previous image generation attempts, even ones that you've deleted or archived conversations for, and pull them all into a single view, which is a little little concerning too.
00:53:07.34 Stan Lemon But you know who's over-rotating on that? I am curious to go back and try some of these other prompts that failed gloriously for me um and just see see if I can you know make something.
00:53:12.09 Jon know
00:53:21.22 Jon Make it better.
00:53:21.52 Stan Lemon Yeah. Yeah. Anytime you put image on chat GPT image, it's, it's really not great. So.
00:53:30.36 Stan Lemon Yeah. i don't know, John. I think it's it's exciting. I think the thing that I appreciate the most is that there's it's like an arms race right for capabilities, and it just keeps getting better. And the reactiveness of it, I don't hate because I kind of think of, you know Apple didn't make the first smartphone.
00:53:44.79 Stan Lemon They just made the best smartphone. So OpenAI doesn't have to be first.
00:53:46.87 Jon Right.
00:53:48.74 Stan Lemon They just be best. And so far, i so I still think they're pretty much kicking butt.
00:53:54.49 Jon I think I agree with you. um And I think that all this healthy competition drives innovation.
00:54:02.39 Stan Lemon And ah in a boatload of expenditures, right? at CapEx costs. So, you know.
00:54:08.05 Jon True. But you aren't an investor, so.
00:54:11.66 Stan Lemon I mean, not not in a particular company, but I do have index funds. So, um okay. I got one last thing i want to talk about and then we can call it a day.
00:54:21.75 Stan Lemon Did you happen to look at this Twitch I sent you?
00:54:24.25 Jon Yes, I did. And I was surprised you knew what Twitch is.
00:54:27.61 Stan Lemon What do you mean I know what Twitch is? Come on, I'm not um'm not ancient, Jonathan. How much of it did you watch?
00:54:34.49 Jon I did not watch any of it, but I knew it existed before you sent this ah link.
00:54:39.77 Stan Lemon Okay, so essentially this is Max of Max with Airplanes or Max of Airplanes, Max, Airplanes Facts with Max.
00:54:45.55 Jon Airplane Facts with Max, which is a great Instagram channel for everyone.
00:54:48.67 Stan Lemon um It's a fantastic Instagram channel. it's It's like, it's one of the best. It actually, Airplane Facts with Max might have been the reason that I got back on Instagram.
00:54:59.66 Stan Lemon Hot take right there. I'm not even joking.
00:55:02.01 Jon Did I introduce you to this or did you find it some other way?
00:55:03.51 Stan Lemon Yes, a thousand percent, a thousand percent.
00:55:04.41 Jon Okay.
00:55:05.15 Stan Lemon You sent it to me and I was like, this is bonkers, but I love this.
00:55:08.92 Jon You love airplanes.
00:55:10.43 Stan Lemon I love airplanes and I love Lord of the Rings. And the fact that this one human, this delightful soul would combine the two into, you know, 60 second, 90 second clip. It's just magic, right? It's absolute magic.
00:55:24.63 Stan Lemon And i I want you to know too, that I believe in my heart of hearts. He is not scripted when he does those. All right.
00:55:32.37 Jon Yep, I would believe that.
00:55:33.47 Stan Lemon Yeah, I believe that he's just like got his phone. He's like, oh, that's interesting. I'm going roll with it. um He was ranking characters. in Lord of the Rings.
00:55:44.73 Jon Really?
00:55:44.83 Stan Lemon And he had some classifications. That was the whole Twitch, right? So he was live twitching and reacting to people as they were you know saying like, Sam should be top or a photo should be top, et cetera, et cetera.
00:55:56.35 Stan Lemon And I thought to myself like Jonathan, do you think it's even possible? Like could we even attempt to rank characters from Lord of the Rings?
00:56:06.78 Jon I think with a very specific set of criteria, yes. Would it be easy?
00:56:13.24 Stan Lemon Okay.
00:56:14.33 Jon No.
00:56:15.77 Stan Lemon Tell me tell me the type of criteria you'd use.
00:56:19.45 Jon I mean, we just need consistent criteria that last the whole lifespan of the characters, right?
00:56:29.05 Stan Lemon Okay.
00:56:29.79 Jon So like we might never come up with those that criteria list, which would make us impossible. but
00:56:35.83 Stan Lemon Well, I mean, do you
00:56:41.34 Stan Lemon i Okay. All right. That's fair. Like, would you choose bravery, honesty? Oh,
00:56:46.64 Jon I think it's probably a couple different things. But we could make it really easy, and we could go with let's rank all the Lord of the Rings characters by who's the best gardener.
00:56:56.88 Stan Lemon well, that's Sam Ganji a thousand times out of a thousand, right?
00:57:00.06 Jon Right, but then it gets more difficult.
00:57:03.93 Stan Lemon Okay.
00:57:04.22 Jon ah Okay, I'm with you so far.
00:57:04.49 Stan Lemon Well, it would have to be Tom Bombadil next. Or actually, no, no, no. It's Sam, then it's Frodo, then it's Bilbo, then it's Bombadil.
00:57:14.48 Stan Lemon Hear me out, hear me out. Who employs Sam?
00:57:18.67 Jon Who employs Sam?
00:57:19.89 Stan Lemon Who employs Sam?
00:57:20.03 Jon Frodo. Yeah.
00:57:20.99 Stan Lemon Frodo. And before Frodo?
00:57:23.25 Jon Bilbo.
00:57:23.99 Stan Lemon Bilbo, right? So those two know what a good gardener looks like. Ergo, they must be good gardeners, right?
00:57:29.20 Jon And I think that a lot of your hobbits show up pretty high.
00:57:33.36 Stan Lemon Yeah, I don't think Merry and Pippin are good gardeners, though, do you?
00:57:37.07 Jon No, they're off stealing crops from Farmer Maggot.
00:57:38.80 Stan Lemon Yeah, exactly. Right. Yeah. They're, they're stealing crops because they can't grow them. Right.
00:57:42.55 Jon Right.
00:57:42.96 Stan Lemon But Tom Bombadil is going to be in there.
00:57:44.47 Jon But Farmer Maggot...
00:57:46.91 Stan Lemon oo former maggot or Tom Bombadil.
00:57:50.83 Jon I think Tom Bombadil, the question is, does he care enough at any given time? Yeah.
00:57:55.25 Stan Lemon Well, I mean, he, he married the river, right?
00:57:58.40 Jon Correct.
00:57:59.09 Stan Lemon Yeah. So, or I think he married, I does. It probably doesn't actually say that he married. Does he say, does it say that he married Goldberry?
00:58:07.67 Jon You read this more recently than I did.
00:58:09.43 Stan Lemon I don't know that marriage was articulated. Oh, now I'm i'm even more curious. See, I was, okay, this is fascinating. You went down a different path with this because I thought to myself, like, what if we just ranked the men of Gondor, right?
00:58:22.87 Jon Ah, we could do that.
00:58:23.73 Stan Lemon Yeah, so then the question becomes, you know, Virgil or Hurin?
00:58:30.10 Stan Lemon Yeah, right? Like, i don't know. And then, you know, you throw Inglit in there, Irelus. I'm probably botching that name. But it like that that could become interesting because men of Gondor have their own...
00:58:43.54 Stan Lemon um Like they have their own defining virtues, right? And at least they articulate virtues of man in in the story. And I think you could just based upon what you know of Gondor decide like, I'm going to rank these people in in Gondor. Now, obviously Aragorn is going to be first, right?
00:59:04.16 Jon You think so?
00:59:05.12 Stan Lemon Oh my gosh. Who else would you put first?
00:59:09.51 Jon I mean, i think Aragorn would probably be at the top of most of my lists. so
00:59:14.56 Stan Lemon Well, but this is the men of Gondor, right? So just for the men of Gondor, he would have to be first.
00:59:16.16 Jon This is the Men of Gondor.
00:59:18.44 Stan Lemon And then obviously, Faramir would be second.
00:59:20.03 Jon But like if you look at how long he runs away from this, you know...
00:59:25.64 Stan Lemon Okay, well, all right. who we Who would be the other candidate? See, I didn't think this would be, didn't think this would be tricky. Who else would be first?
00:59:35.14 Jon um I think that there is a strong play for Faramir.
00:59:40.39 Stan Lemon I think Faramir is a a solid number two, right? If, if, if you were able to come up with a valid reason that Aragorn is not the.
00:59:47.58 Jon I've got to think back through the histories and who actually falls as a man of Gondor outside of Lord of the Rings.
00:59:53.03 Stan Lemon Hmm. oh Oh, you want to, you want to take in like a wider birth of Corp.
00:59:57.00 Jon Yeah, so.
00:59:57.93 Stan Lemon right. All right. What if, what if I said, uh,
01:00:00.84 Jon Like, surely there were some good stewards, right?
01:00:04.68 Stan Lemon Oh yeah. I mean, absolutely. Right. I think, I think probably everything, I mean, honestly, everybody before Denethor, right? Not exactly, but everybody before Denethor. What about a more tricky one, like the men of Rohan?
01:00:17.71 Jon Hmm.
01:00:18.72 Stan Lemon Cause I don't think Theoden is a clear number one there. Right.
01:00:21.57 Jon No.
01:00:22.09 Stan Lemon I also don't think Amor is a clear number one.
01:00:25.48 Stan Lemon And the question is,
01:00:25.84 Jon That would probably be a more manageable list than Gondor, though.
01:00:28.52 Stan Lemon It might be, but let's just take the top three, right?
01:00:30.32 Jon We'd have to ring stack them.
01:00:31.40 Stan Lemon So you've got Theoden, Eomer. I think I could argue like who who goes first there.
01:00:36.59 Jon Do you include Ao in or not?
01:00:36.62 Stan Lemon I'd probably... Well, that's the question. That's the 800-pound gorilla, right? She rides into battle as a man of of Rohan, but we know she's not, right? and when she She literally slays ah the Ringwraith.
01:00:49.64 Stan Lemon So it like, it's kind of now granted you can make an argument that she wasn't following instructions, but I think sometimes you've got to break rules because of, you know, outweigh the means of, yeah.
01:00:49.68 Jon but kingdom of The The needs of the many outweigh.
01:01:03.82 Jon if
01:01:04.04 Stan Lemon Or Valor, yada, yada, yada. Yeah. So, but that's, that's a big question, right? Like, does,
01:01:09.58 Jon I think you got include her, and then she's number one.
01:01:13.39 Stan Lemon A thousand percent. we We agree wholeheartedly on both those points. See, that was easy, right? So maybe maybe Men of Rohan, you know. um I think it'd be fun to talk about elves.
01:01:26.00 Stan Lemon I think it'd be fun to talk about, well, you know, there's there's a there's a fixed there's a fixed number of them.
01:01:26.42 Jon Man, elves would take years though, Stan. But I guess if we we stay through Lord of the Rings. but
01:01:34.60 Stan Lemon Yeah. scar thin load of these But there's a fixed number of them, right? And then, um you know, the other one, i think,
01:01:39.74 Jon Legolas is not number one for our listeners at home. Not even close.
01:01:42.60 Stan Lemon No, no.
01:01:43.56 Jon suck
01:01:44.12 Stan Lemon honestly, like, i think the question becomes who could possibly outdo Galadriel?
01:01:48.78 Jon Galadriel.
01:01:49.80 Stan Lemon Yeah. Yeah. And I love Elrond. I mean, God bless him. He is a, he's a wonderful elf. If ever there was, it was an elf after my own heart, it would be Elrond.
01:01:55.52 Jon Elrond.
01:01:58.16 Stan Lemon But Galadriel is like, hit okay, this this is, um we're going to, to tirade on this for just minute. So everybody thinks of Galadriel as represented in the movies, right?
01:02:09.33 Stan Lemon Which as you know, is the, it's, it's bad CGI, but it's also maybe the leading, the forerunner reason why i I don't care for the movies, right?
01:02:10.72 Jon the bad CGI. Yep.
01:02:17.95 Stan Lemon It's how Galadriel represented. Um, And to a lesser extent, Gimli. But largely, i don't like how Gimli is represented because of his interaction, or lack thereof, with Galadriel.
01:02:28.26 Jon Yep.
01:02:29.17 Stan Lemon Now, when I read the books, I think of Galadriel like Xena, Warrior Princess. okay You remember how cool she was on UPN?
01:02:40.72 Stan Lemon Back in the, that's probably 90s, right? Good Lord, we're dating ourselves.
01:02:43.00 Jon Yep.
01:02:43.96 Stan Lemon Okay, so Galadriel is like Xena to the nth degree, right?
01:02:44.16 Jon World.
01:02:49.61 Stan Lemon And ah I don't think they even brought that out. Now, they kind of do in the TV show, in the Amazon Prime TV show. Yeah.
01:02:55.84 Jon Yep. Rings of Power. Yep. We do get a good glimpse of that. It will be interesting to see where her character goes in the next season.
01:03:04.11 Stan Lemon Yeah, we've got a lot of ground to cover to get to where she's at in Lord of the Rings, you know, what everybody knows.
01:03:10.09 Jon Yep.
01:03:10.55 Stan Lemon But, um you know, you go do the dwarf thing, right? Like, are you going to pick Balin, Dwaylin, Oyin, Ori, Nori? Right? Right.
01:03:21.10 Jon Yeah.
01:03:21.15 Stan Lemon Biffer, Baffer, Bomber, Philly, Killing, Dory.
01:03:22.32 Jon you
01:03:23.95 Stan Lemon I don't know. like How do you rank those? i think I think we could have hours upon hours of ranking dwarves. And the reality is that we're just going to come back to Gimli being the best.
01:03:36.27 Jon Hmm.
01:03:36.84 Stan Lemon Oh, yeah. See there? I was baiting you. Really?
01:03:40.65 Jon I mean, I feel like Durin probably wins. but But if we're looking at The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings, maybe it's Balin.
01:03:46.51 Stan Lemon Really?
01:03:52.43 Stan Lemon and boen Yeah,
01:03:54.73 Jon It's definitely not Thorin.
01:03:56.81 Stan Lemon Oh, no. I mean, Oakenshield is... and like hes he's He's the personification of arrogance and pride, right?
01:04:04.15 Jon Yep.
01:04:05.32 Stan Lemon Yeah. Oh, man. See, we could we could spend a lot of time. So, anyhow, this is what the Twitch was. And I actually... i watched a little bit of the Twitch. Yes, I know what Twitch is. I can't believe you didn't think i know what Twitch is.
01:04:16.81 Jon Should we start ah doing Twitch? We could play Minesweeper or something, and we could talk for five hours.
01:04:19.28 Stan Lemon No. Nobody wants... nobody wants No, no, no, no.
01:04:25.55 Stan Lemon We could twitch this delightful wine that, you know, oh
01:04:28.97 Jon which apparently I finished way before you. So sorry, Stan.
01:04:33.13 Stan Lemon well, for it's because you have less opinions to pontificate about, I guess.
01:04:36.27 Jon It has been an hour. So there's that.
01:04:39.98 Stan Lemon Yeah, it's not it's unusual that a wine would last as long. There's a little bit more of a bite on the sides of the tongue at this point. So, right, Jonathan.
01:04:47.46 Jon Yeah. Drinkable wine. Not my favorite.
01:04:50.16 Stan Lemon jukemar
01:04:51.56 Jon Definitely had worse.
01:04:52.84 Stan Lemon Definitely had worse. Like last year's, what was that? Jalapeno Rosé?
01:04:58.51 Jon Jalapeno rosé. It was not good. I don't think either of us finished it.
01:05:02.38 Stan Lemon Do you remember what the character was for Star Trek's Jalapeno Rosé? Had have been like Janeway or something.
01:05:06.95 Jon I don't. No.
01:05:09.90 Stan Lemon Right? Like Tom Paris. It to been a Voyager character. I know that much.
01:05:15.75 Jon I don't know. We could probably look it up.
01:05:18.95 Stan Lemon mean, you think there's cheaters for the Star Trek advent wine calendar?
01:05:22.41 Jon Yes.
01:05:23.52 Stan Lemon Oh, that's.
01:05:24.20 Jon Actually, they probably sent us the... i That link probably isn't accurate anymore because they can't have anyone this year.
01:05:29.59 Stan Lemon No, it can't be. Yeah.
01:05:30.85 Jon So anyway.
01:05:31.39 Stan Lemon Yeah. All right, Jonathan, as always, i appreciate the discussion. you remember friends don't let friends eat chocolate pie. Um, and, uh,
01:05:43.24 Jon But it might not be chocolate cake. So.
01:05:45.10 Stan Lemon but it might not be chocolate cake. So, all right, my friend, until next time.
01:05:48.39 Jon All right. Later, Stanley.