00:56.71 Jon So did you get your hours worth of exercise in today, Stan?
01:00.42 Stan Lemon At present, I am currently at 64 minutes, which means this is day one of 14 that I need to hit ah for my January goal on Apple Fitness.
01:12.48 Jon My monthly challenge is close my stand ring 24 So my. so
01:21.75 Stan Lemon Wait, wait, wait.
01:21.76 Jon my
01:22.56 Stan Lemon Are you kidding me?
01:25.32 Jon That is what it is, so it pays off to have a really lazy December.
01:29.57 Stan Lemon how did How many times did you close your stand ring in December, Jonathan?
01:35.68 Jon um Does that tell me it in the monthly challenge, or am going to have to go look?
01:39.24 Stan Lemon you have to go look. I mean, you're telling me you didn't close it every day.
01:42.66 Jon I did not.
01:44.77 Stan Lemon Is it just 12 hours or do you have something crazy like 18 or something?
01:47.74 Jon No, it's just 12 hours.
01:52.07 Stan Lemon So Jonathan, I i don't know how to say this, but that's like the easiest one to close.
01:57.26 Jon That is the easiest one to close. You should ah see all my other ones. Okay, so I missed one, two, three, four, five, six, seven.
02:10.79 Jon My stand ring seven times in December.
02:13.28 Stan Lemon Did you have seven days of vacation I don't know about?
02:16.73 Stan Lemon Okay. All right. Well, Jonathan, I mean, here's to 2026 and closing your your standard. 24 times, you said?
02:24.96 Jon 24 times.
02:25.95 Stan Lemon Okay. Yeah, that's totally cool.
02:26.28 Jon We'll see if I get it today, because I'm not looking so hot right now.
02:32.13 Stan Lemon How many hours you got, John?
02:33.92 Jon I've got six.
02:36.19 Stan Lemon Okay, well, all to have to stay pretty late. Yeah.
02:39.98 Jon I had a late start to the day, so that is possible, so.
02:42.96 Stan Lemon All right. Well, there you go. Yeah. So I don't know, man, I find this a little frustrating. The, my exercise goal is 30 minutes. I have no intention of increasing it. Uh, Apple believes that I should close my exercise ring at 53 minutes, 14 times and will reward me with a goal.
03:00.48 Stan Lemon And, uh, the problem is Jonathan, I don't know that I can resist. i don't think I can resist.
03:09.05 Jon You do have um this kind of competitive nature in you that I do not.
03:15.45 Stan Lemon So it's interesting you say that. Like, I don't think I'm competitive with other people so much as I am myself. Like, I like having a thing that's just barely out of reach, you know?
03:27.16 Jon Maybe. How do you feel when you lose a board game?
03:31.20 Stan Lemon don't really care.
03:32.25 Jon Okay, I don't care either, sounds like.
03:33.12 Stan Lemon Yeah. Yeah, that's that's not one that I get like really worked up about.
03:35.10 Jon All right.
03:37.59 Stan Lemon I definitely take satisfaction winning, don't get me wrong. That does not happen a lot, considering that I am the weakest of the board game aficionados in this home. But, know, it is what it is.
03:46.78 Jon Yep.
03:48.83 Stan Lemon to
03:49.95 Jon One day we will hang out and we will actually play Eucharist and you and I can be partners and then Mrs. Lemon and Evelyn can destroy us.
03:58.59 Stan Lemon You know, i have played Euchre maybe a half a dozen times. I don't remember how. I think I enjoyed it once I got the hang of it.
04:04.81 Jon Okay.
04:07.13 Stan Lemon The problem is when you play Euchre, right? You've got you got people who are in it for the the fun of it. And then you've got people who are in it with a level of competition that I can't relate to.
04:11.53 Jon Yep.
04:15.58 Stan Lemon Like there's, Euchre players get intense.
04:15.87 Jon Correct.
04:20.32 Jon But not me. Back in the day when I was working in the co-working space, we had a lunch group that would play Euchre often. And like we built out a spreadsheet that tracked how different teams performed against different teams and how individuals performed and like scored it with ELO because you know there were software engineers in this group. so
04:42.17 Stan Lemon Do you think you would just plug all that into chat GPT today?
04:46.46 Jon Maybe, or we'd have ChatGPT build an app to track it.
04:50.86 Stan Lemon Vibe code something? Yeah.
04:51.80 Jon yeah
04:53.12 Stan Lemon You know, um I've got Codex running in the background as we record. i have completely converted over with um but the new year from Claude to Codex, mainly because I'm cheap.
05:06.52 Stan Lemon And i'm I'm like, I've been on a bit of a coding bender and I'm hoping to I don't know, get a little more balanced to my day. But the i really do think, at least the output that I'm seeing from the Codex models feels superior.
05:25.85 Jon Interesting.
05:26.68 Stan Lemon Yeah.
05:27.61 Jon And you would be one to know.
05:29.85 Stan Lemon Well, maybe, I don't know. I just feel like what i what I've run into with Claude more often than not is it gets ahead of itself regularly. um Or it has outdated information. one of the things that keeps driving me nuts about the the Claude Opus model is it routinely tells me that iOS 26 is not real.
05:51.34 Stan Lemon Right? And like, there's there's a lot of evidence out there that it's real, including the one that's installed on my device. But the thing that like gets me a little wound up about this is all the documentation for APIs for iOS 26 came out back in June at WWDC, right?
06:08.85 Jon All right.
06:10.33 Stan Lemon So it's six months old. Like for all intents and purposes, for the for the purpose of developing an application right now, all that information is six months old. And I know that Claude, you know, they...
06:21.85 Stan Lemon the way that The way Anthropic talks about their model training, um they historically have said, like, we don't go out to search the web unless you tell us to. So you you always have a snapshot, like a sales snapshot of of data.
06:34.84 Stan Lemon But i feel like I feel like some of these things should be, I don't know, man, just not a problem.
06:42.36 Jon I think I agree. But we'll get there one of these days.
06:46.21 Stan Lemon We'll get there. I do wonder, know, I've mostly used... this stuff for iOS development in my spare time. And I am really curious how many people actually do that versus other development. Cause I don't know that this is, like i don't think iOS development is place where people are doing a ton of, you know, prompt engineering.
07:08.73 Stan Lemon ah could be wrong.
07:09.14 Jon Hit me. Well, that sounds like a whole blog series. Sure.
07:14.94 Stan Lemon Yeah, I'm never going to write that, but you know we can dream of it. the um The thing that's slowed me down a little bit, the tooling for Codex. is not as robust.
07:26.20 Stan Lemon And so there are more natural break points where it's like asking me for permission or it's not doing as much. um And I actually think that's worked out better as well.
07:38.43 Stan Lemon Cause I've had less moments where, you know, like Claude, I would say, Hey, go work overnight. And it would, you know, burn through a whole bunch of tokens, do a bunch of stuff. And the next day I would look at it and I'd be like,
07:50.56 Stan Lemon you know, it was great for the first two hours and went wildly off the rails kind of thing. um And Codex doesn't allow me that, like just because of the nature of the tooling.
08:01.58 Jon Okay. Well, we will stay um stay in the loop on all of your coding projects. Again, if you want to get in onto the Wine Tasting app, email podcast at twistoflemonpod.com, and we'll get you access to that.
08:18.78 Stan Lemon Yeah, and I think the thing I would ask is if you do email in, like I'm happy to send you a test flight beta test, but I want to know the last bottle you tasted and ah what what you either loved or hated about it.
08:31.80 Jon Interesting.
08:33.56 Stan Lemon Don't you think? I mean, like, I'm not, you know, there's I've only got like 100 test flight invites or whatever, I think. I don't know. Maybe there's more.
08:41.44 Jon Well, how many have you used? Two?
08:44.60 Stan Lemon um I think technically is three. Cause I invited my development account, which I don't even have a device for anymore, but I did. Yeah.
08:54.52 Jon Okay.
08:54.75 Stan Lemon No, no, no. It's more than that. So it's you, it's Dave, it's Sarah. I don't think Sarah's installed it. And then my spare account. So that's four. There you go.
09:02.57 Jon OK.
09:03.77 Stan Lemon Yeah.
09:05.76 Jon Well, fun. um I have not written any code yet. We are recording on the 1st, so I do have some coding to do in this first week of January um in line with my resolutions we talked about four episodes ago now, I think.
09:21.18 Stan Lemon Oh, right. Okay. So have you thought about what your project's going Like, what are you going to tackle?
09:26.36 Jon I think I'm starting with JohnColmeier.com and getting that to a place where I like it. And then I think there's some podcast category and tag stuff I want to do.
09:35.61 Stan Lemon what What do you not like about johnkolmeyer.com right now?
09:38.100 Jon ah So I've essentially rebuilt it with Codex. um And then I just kind of got off of the writing code bandwagon. um So getting back on that, um generally just making it my own site.
09:51.19 Jon Like there's always things to tinker with on your own site.
09:55.05 Stan Lemon Now, you're not currently hosting WordPress, right?
09:57.69 Jon I'm not.
09:59.16 Stan Lemon Okay. How do you feel about that? Because
10:01.43 Jon I feel fine about that right now.
10:03.60 Stan Lemon you were like a WordPress junkie for a minute there.
10:05.76 Jon I am. I still have a lot of WordPress knowledge. i still support a handful of WordPress sites.
10:12.22 Stan Lemon But you're not you're not currently hosting on WordPress for for whatever reasons.
10:16.38 Jon Right now, the my site costs absolutely nothing to run.
10:22.05 Stan Lemon That's nice, isn't it?
10:23.09 Jon Yeah. so
10:25.16 Stan Lemon One of the things I'm going to get done in 2026 is move Mrs. Lemon's website off of wordpress.com. So I'm determined to do it, but I need the time.
10:33.64 Jon do
10:36.34 Stan Lemon I think one of the things that I did last week that really got a away from me is I tried to do changes to all three of my apps simultaneously.
10:47.36 Stan Lemon So I would have different terminals and, um they were in contention for resources on the machine, which was not good, but I also started losing track of what I was doing.
10:58.27 Stan Lemon And so I couldn't monitor and curate.
10:58.49 Jon Well, i I got all of the, hey, new version to test emails. so
11:03.21 Stan Lemon Yeah. Yeah. There were quite a bit, quite a bit of those, quite a bit of those, but yeah. So I'm going to,
11:08.41 Jon Nice. Are you happy with where your apps are at?
11:12.25 Stan Lemon Um, I'm, I'm a little more today. So yesterday after I got back from Pittsburgh, um, just spent some time chipping away at some little things on the fitness app.
11:25.63 Stan Lemon to get it to a point where I was like, okay, I'm not mad at it it right now. Cause I had done a whole bunch of code cleanup with Claude. And, um I was like, you know, go look for problems, fix them. would have make an inventory and then, uh, will through those. And again, like, you know, 67% of them were spot on and I just needed to pay a little more attention to it.
11:47.16 Stan Lemon than I was, but at the same time, like, you know, Claude and OpenAI, excuse me we're all doing that 2x credit thing up until, you know, midnight.
11:57.47 Stan Lemon And so I was like, well, i just, I got to burn through them. And I think that, you know the moral a story here is if you cannot monitor and manage what the robots are doing, you shouldn't do it because it's going to cause more work or more frustration at the other end of it. I'm constantly reminded of this, but it's so alluring. There's this moment, right, where it's so alluring to just cut the corners,
12:18.36 Stan Lemon And then then, you know, I wind up in trouble.
12:21.31 Jon Deal with the consequences.
12:22.65 Stan Lemon Yeah, yeah.
12:24.48 Jon No. Well, you wrote far more code than you were originally telling me you were going to write. I think probably because of this double token business.
12:31.52 Stan Lemon That double token business was being busters. Yeah. And what was crazy too is, you know, like Claude doing an anthropic, like that was great, right? And then Codex threw the ring in the hat and ah what did say?
12:42.25 Jon Hat in the ring.
12:44.15 Stan Lemon Ring in the hat?
12:44.73 Jon Ring in the hat.
12:44.99 Stan Lemon Hat in the They threw the the ring.
12:46.47 Jon It's like a cool version of horseshoes.
12:48.41 Stan Lemon There you go, yeah. but um But because I had you know tons of tokens, right? I put it into the high reasoning mode um and just went to town and generated some um you know inventory documents that I will deal with at some point. Like I'll just you know use them to create cleanup tasks down the road. But you know like why not, right? What do I gotta lose?
13:16.89 Jon I like it.
13:19.10 Stan Lemon but you know yeah So, yeah.
13:19.20 Jon Well, fun. I've been working, you know, for the past two weeks, so.
13:22.59 Stan Lemon Yeah, I know. So, you know, in my defense, i'm I'm not quite through two weeks of off time. So I think like, you know, tomorrow I will have hit two weeks, but not not today.
13:30.88 Jon Okay.
13:35.61 Jon Okay. Well, two weeks, all in all. I got...
13:39.43 Stan Lemon I'm going back to work. You're going to vacation. So I think it's it's all, it'll all be even.
13:41.63 Jon Right.
13:44.08 Jon We'll balance out. You will have worked more in January than I have.
13:45.14 Stan Lemon Yeah.
13:47.45 Stan Lemon Yeah, well, hopefully.
13:48.52 Jon So.
13:51.39 Stan Lemon Hopefully, yeah.
13:51.45 Jon I imagine so.
13:53.12 Stan Lemon Yeah. So
13:54.14 Jon um Have you gotten any emails ah from the twisties?
13:59.13 Stan Lemon I have not, at least ah if if they'd come through, Jonathan, I would have forwarded them to you. I have not seen anything. Should I be expecting email?
14:04.91 Jon Okay.
14:07.13 Jon um
14:07.77 Stan Lemon email
14:08.44 Jon I say yes. I don't know if they'll actually send it, but I think they had strong opinions about your ah calling if you put flour in things cake. um But I can't remember all of the intrisci-te details of that.
14:24.67 Stan Lemon in intricacies.
14:25.92 Jon and That one.
14:26.15 Stan Lemon Yeah.
14:27.13 Jon so So there's that.
14:28.57 Stan Lemon Um, like, like you were
14:29.51 Jon um They both thought it was hilarious, and I think we now have loyal listeners. So...
14:34.04 Stan Lemon Okay, so owen just because I'm dying to know, would they argue that cake does not require flour?
14:42.42 Jon I don't think it's that, but I don't think that adding flour to what they would call a chocolate pie automatically makes it a cake.
14:50.29 Stan Lemon Huh. All right. Well, they can be wrong. It's all right. So I look forward to that feedback. I'd love to love it more. You know, um I wanted to tell you about this. You you made me think about this with cake. So I had had to go to Pittsburgh for a funeral ah for a friend's funeral.
15:03.89 Stan Lemon And we were in the Oakmont area. And I think I think you've had Oakmont Bakery before when I want to live that.
15:10.68 Jon I believe so, yeah.
15:11.94 Stan Lemon Ages ago, right?
15:12.83 Jon Yep.
15:13.31 Stan Lemon um Because I've actually, it's been, we've been in Indiana now for 12 years, which is crazy to think of. But ah Oakmont Bakery is like amazing, right? So a few years back now, they moved locations and they had this massive complex, still in Oakmont, but it's it's humongous.
15:29.95 Stan Lemon And it's hyper-digitalized, like it's pretty wild. When you go in, they've got QR codes all over so that you can figure out how to navigate. The place is crazy busy, but it moves just as fast as I remember, you know, the smaller venue moving.
15:42.04 Stan Lemon um and ah there's something like There's something a little less quaint about it you know in in in terms of just how monstrous this thing has has gotten. um But when we were in there, you know first of all, like we we pull a tab and we've got 12 numbers ahead of us or whatever, and it goes in like three minutes.
16:03.50 Stan Lemon so
16:04.12 Jon nice
16:04.44 Stan Lemon just Just crazy rapid fire progression. But then we got to figure out what are we going to get, you know? And we were getting stuff to take home. So I ended up, I think I got six ciabatta.
16:16.74 Stan Lemon It was a spur of the moment decision. I had picked out a sourdough loaf, which has been delicious, by the way. um
16:22.08 Jon Nice.
16:23.20 Stan Lemon And then we picked out six cupcakes and which, you know, like cupcakes, when you think of cupcake, do you, like do you jump out of your skin excited for a cupcake?
16:34.13 Jon I do not.
16:34.75 Stan Lemon Yeah, nobody does, right? um
16:36.93 Jon I'm sure somebody probably does, but...
16:38.59 Stan Lemon Somebody probably But, well, I don't know why, but we were like, we should get some cupcakes. And they had like really crazy, awesome cupcakes. One of them was called The Godfather, which I've had, you know, like probably a decade ago. Had a little lady finger in the top. It was unbelievable. But we picked out six of these gourmet cupcakes. And then, you know, Mrs. Lemon's waiting line to check out. she's like, well, gonna a macaron. And she ate it while she was there. And then we got two...
17:08.15 Stan Lemon uh what are they called cannolis cannolis right left the gumbo we took the cannolis and um uh all that was like 30 bucks it was insane right yeah because i'd like if i walk into kroger right now i could buy six sawdust cupcakes and it probably would be 15 bucks so anyhow the thing that amazed me and and uh this is what i want to tell you as big as their game has gotten
17:10.96 Jon Nice.
17:17.68 Jon Nice.
17:31.10 Stan Lemon the quality was still fantastic. We got home and we ate the cupcakes last night and they were unbelievably good. Like they're what every cupcake aspires to be.
17:38.41 Jon Nice.
17:42.43 Stan Lemon And, um, the Godfather one was fantastic. We had one with these like almond shavings and had like a little bit of, um, banana cream in the middle. And, and that was, that was just like gangbusters.
17:53.97 Stan Lemon Uh, But I couldn't, I was just like, I was, i was reveling over this a little bit Like they've gotten bigger, right? A lot bigger. The quality does not have appear to have like slipped one iota.
18:04.76 Stan Lemon And on top of it, the it was all stupid cheap. like It was really like 30 bucks for all that, all that baked good. Like I, I just can't, i don't know. It's just wild.
18:15.11 Jon I like it.
18:16.16 Stan Lemon Yeah. Now I didn't get a cream, cream tort cake, which is like my vice.
18:16.89 Jon Will you...
18:20.16 Stan Lemon I came very close though.
18:22.68 Jon So when do you go back Pittsburgh? Maybe is the first question. And the second one is, would you ever move back to Pittsburgh?
18:28.92 Stan Lemon nice um I don't know when i'll go back. That's a good question. This was not a planned trip. um It was, you know, it is what it is. But ah we had not been back in two years, I think. And so...
18:44.38 Stan Lemon i think I think we want weve wind up out there every two to three years or something like that. couple years ago, we went and we set the tail end of summer. We got to go to a training camp for the Steelers and we we hit up Oakmont Bakery and and like, you know, usual haunts. I will say one thing that surprised me this time. There's a whole bunch of places that we used to love going to that we have now outlived.
19:03.61 Stan Lemon Um, and I think maybe that's just the season of life that I'm in, but, uh, one of our favorite restaurants up in, um, was originally Buffalo township. Then I moved to Starver. I think that closed that closed this year.
19:16.83 Stan Lemon One of my favorite breweries closed. So it's just stuff like that, which is kind of sad
19:20.76 Jon There was some brewery you went to that was like in a church, an old church.
19:25.02 Stan Lemon Yeah. Yeah. Church Brewers. That's still there. We didn't go there this time.
19:27.46 Jon Okay. Okay.
19:27.90 Stan Lemon We went there last time. Um, Yeah, that's still there. the The place I was thinking of was called Rivertown Inn. I really liked it. um But they a couple locations and they're all they're all gone now. So that's kind of sad.
19:41.35 Jon Sad.
19:41.75 Stan Lemon um know
19:42.84 Jon But you truly love Pittsburgh.
19:44.73 Stan Lemon I do, yeah. i As far as moving back, I don't know, man. I mean, I think the season of life that I'm in now, I will, uh, I will stay here until the kids are gone and then I'll figure out wherever they're going and I'll move there next.
19:59.36 Stan Lemon So if one of them moves to Pittsburgh, yeah, yeah.
19:59.68 Jon And then they'll move again. so
20:02.94 Stan Lemon One of one of them moves to Pittsburgh, i'll move to Pittsburgh. You know, if, uh, one of them moves to, um California much to Mrs. Lemon's chagrin, I'll, we'll move to California, you know?
20:12.86 Jon All right, there you go.
20:13.60 Stan Lemon So, um, that's kind of the way that I think about it now. I, I, there's definitely a, uh,
20:19.72 Stan Lemon There's a lot of nostalgia. I've got a lot of fun. there's like ah it's ah It's a pretty city. i look i mean There's not a straight road in the place and the hills are... They give you scenery wherever you go, you know which is which a far cry from Indiana.
20:31.89 Jon Yeah.
20:33.45 Stan Lemon Yeah.
20:34.40 Jon So I think I visited you out there three times total.
20:39.53 Jon That sounds right.
20:40.84 Stan Lemon Could be, I mean, I know Henry's baptism, there was the epic kayak trip with a Fanker and there's probably another time. So
20:49.06 Jon I think I came out so you could teach me how to code once.
20:52.20 Stan Lemon there you Okay. Yeah.
20:53.80 Jon So um the first time i came out there, i had just bought my first car, which was a manual transmission, which I learned how to drive the day after I bought it. um So this was like two weeks later, I think. um I go out to Pennsylvania, so that was my first encounter with real hills um while driving manual transmission.
21:15.27 Stan Lemon You were living in Milwaukee at the time, right?
21:17.03 Jon I was.
21:17.80 Stan Lemon I mean, Milwaukee is not flat.
21:20.61 Jon I mean, it's not exactly hilly.
21:23.05 Stan Lemon Yeah. yes and don't know. You know, Pittsburgh's got a vibe similar to Cincinnati in terms of hills and turns and stuff. Maybe a little more intense, but because a little bit an older city too.
21:34.59 Stan Lemon Yeah. I know. It was good times. was good times. But, you know,
21:37.74 Jon Indeed.
21:39.85 Stan Lemon The fact that Oakmont Baker has maintained their quality was the thing that really stood out to me, you know, especially as they scaled up. I think that's really hard to do. I think it's that's really hard to increase your volume and not ah compromise the product somehow along the way, you know?
21:57.73 Jon I'm with you.
22:00.30 Jon Anyways, so I'm sad that the twisties have not sent you emails yet. They did have a request for a topic that they want to hear your thoughts on. And that is thoughts on pasta. What is your favorite pasta shape?
22:13.61 Stan Lemon What is my favorite pasta shape? Okay. Well, here's another Pittsburgh connection for you. um So, well, we we had to get dinner one night. We went to a place called Hofstatt's, Hofstatt's Monaco, I think, in Oakmont. Look it up. it's It's fantastic. And we got, we both wound up ordering these steak medallions that were crusted in blue cheese with a balsamic glaze over top.
22:36.28 Stan Lemon Right. And, um, I mean, they like I could not have asked for a more perfectly cooked piece of meat. You cut over the, your fork, it was delicious, by the way, had a piece of tiramisu there, which was fantastic.
22:48.45 Stan Lemon I could not find good tiramisu in Italy, oddly enough, which has, which has made me question whether or not tiramisu is actually in an Italian American invention rather than, um yeah an actual Italian, you know, piece of cuisine.
23:03.44 Stan Lemon But,
23:03.81 Jon Like many things.
23:05.16 Stan Lemon spectacular i mean, it was really spectacular. So long way, long way to get here, John. ah One of the side dish options was pasta and sauce of your choice, right?
23:16.74 Jon Okay.
23:17.06 Stan Lemon So I think the, the pasta they pre-picked, right? So the pasta the day was penne, a rather small penne. And then the sauce was a like tomato basil with maybe like some Parmesan in it.
23:31.15 Stan Lemon And it was spectacular, right?
23:33.52 Jon Sounds delicious.
23:35.33 Stan Lemon So, you know, i get a small plate of pasta and this is not something i would normally order, right? i I ate the whole thing and there's two reasons why. One, the sauce was was quite literally phenomenal. But two, the pasta was cooked al dente, like legitimately al dente.
23:52.58 Stan Lemon And if you have good quality pasta, al dente, i don't really care what the shape is. Like it's just going to be really good. So... um i I definitely have opinions about pasta shapes. Okay. And we can we can get into that if you want.
24:08.13 Stan Lemon But what I would say is the shape is secondary to how it's cooked because you can have the best pasta shape in the world and overcook it. And in like, it's just, just awful.
24:19.02 Stan Lemon So, yeah.
24:18.98 Jon Just have a sad evening. um John and Stan Lore unlocked. You walked me through how to cook pasta al dente.
24:28.96 Stan Lemon I did really?
24:28.93 Jon Do you remember this? Yeah.
24:29.89 Stan Lemon No, I don't.
24:30.49 Jon I think this was shortly after I moved into my apartment or shortly after I got married.
24:31.06 Stan Lemon I don't.
24:35.59 Jon One of the two. um And basically you said, hey, look at the box. Start checking it two minutes before they tell you to.
24:43.94 Stan Lemon Yeah, there you go.
24:44.04 Jon um And then if it needs to cook longer, let it go another 30 seconds and test again. So.
24:50.66 Stan Lemon Yeah. Test aggressively. I think the other thing too is like, don't, I think people, they get like a raging boil going and then they throw their pasta in, right? And they have to turn it down because it's a raging boil and then they lose too much heat.
25:02.64 Jon Yep.
25:03.80 Stan Lemon So it doesn't cook right. And then it's not done. Then they leave it in too long. So i think like if you just get a, a solid, legitimate boil, steady boil, right? You put your pasta in,
25:15.27 Stan Lemon And yeah, you pull it early, you check it early, and then you know check it really aggressively. You're going to wind up with with good pasta. I think here's the other thing too I'll say. If you can find some fresh made pasta, you you will you will not regret spending whatever money...
25:31.62 Stan Lemon it costs, right? It is going to be so much better than the, uh, the big pasta stuff that you're gonna find the Kroger or the Walmart or whatnot. And there's some good stuff there. Like I'm not, I'm not trying to knock all of it, but, um, fresh pasta is just, it's just in a league of its own, you know?
25:45.45 Stan Lemon Um, yeah, I, as far as, as far as shape goes, do you, um, well, let me ask you Do you have a preference? Do you have, have, do you have particular pasta like?
25:56.55 Jon um I actively dislike spaghetti and like noodles because it's hard to eat.
26:05.51 Stan Lemon Oh, why do you think it's hard to eat?
26:07.75 Jon Because I can't stab it with a fork.
26:10.15 Stan Lemon Jonathan, you use a spoon.
26:12.29 Jon Well, sure, but it's just, it's more involved to eat, so I don't love it.
26:18.09 Stan Lemon this is This amazes me. I would have thought that, okay, to each his own. I do not mind doing a proper stab and spin on a spoon for spaghetti. I really don't.
26:33.70 Stan Lemon I think... ah Spokane is not my favorite. Like it's not the one I'm going to to, but I don't hate it. I will also say, i can't remember last time I had angel hair.
26:45.41 Stan Lemon And I used to think angel hair was great. I think, I think I liked angel hair because more surface area by volume. And so you could, if, if done correctly, right. Get more sauce along the way.
26:57.06 Jon Makes sense.
26:57.83 Stan Lemon You know, I guess, you know, i'm I'm calling angel hair. Isn't the, the, uh, actually Ms. Cappellini, right.
27:04.52 Jon I can't remember, but that sounds right.
27:06.69 Stan Lemon Yeah. Capilini.
27:07.17 Jon Say confidently.
27:07.38 Stan Lemon Capilini.
27:08.20 Jon so um Actually, what so like if we're just thinking noodles, generally I'm going to go for penne or a ziti type thing.
27:09.32
Stan Lemon
27:20.12 Jon um
27:20.47 Stan Lemon time
27:20.95 Jon But I think when pressed, the actual answer is ravioli.
27:27.22 Stan Lemon Okay. All right. That's a little bit of a different, different spin. So, um, here's, here's what I'd say. Like I like ZD in a baked dish. I don't like freeform ZD. Like ZD just in a sauce. I think, uh, for whatever reason, doesn't pick up as much. Like I'd rather have a rigatoni, which has a little more surface area that, you know, cause you, what you want ultimately is the sauce to cling to it.
27:49.07 Jon Yep.
27:49.27 Stan Lemon Um, on the whole like long pasta front, right? So everybody knows spaghetti. i think we probably grew up on spaghetti and something that resembled ketchup, right?
28:00.08 Stan Lemon With a little bit of ground beef on top.
28:00.48 Jon Yep.
28:02.20 Stan Lemon um
28:02.42 Jon Sometimes, yeah.
28:03.60 Stan Lemon Yeah. Spaghetti, I don't have a problem with. I think I would probably go, ah what is it? Tagliatelle before I went spaghetti if I was going for long pasta.
28:14.48 Stan Lemon Right? So wider a wider noodle. But you my my favorite long pasta is the Bucatini. A thousand percent. And I think Bucatini is unequivocally, when it comes to long pasta, the winner.
28:31.90 Jon Okay, I don't know if I've ever had it.
28:32.66 Stan Lemon Have you had bucatini? Okay. Bucatini is amazing because what it is, is it's a long noodle that is hollow in the middle, right? And if you don't screw it up when you cook it, you will get whatever that sauce is all the way through the noodle, right?
28:39.65 Jon Okay.
28:44.52 Stan Lemon Just a little bit of it. But if you get like a nice, really um thin red sauce, it'll permeate that whole noodle. And that's just delicious. We have um we have a dish that we make...
28:56.44 Stan Lemon that has more of a cream-based sauce. We actually use creme fraiche. And the creme fraiche will get through the bucatini from one to the other end. And then the creme fraiche will soak up some of the flavor of its its salmon and its shallots and its Brussels sprouts.
29:17.88 Stan Lemon Right. And so you'll get all those flavors then flowing through the Bucatini. And Jonathan, when you, when you get it on that fork and you spin it onto the, um, the spoon, maybe stab a little piece of salmon at the, at the end of it is just, is the most amazing thing.
29:35.70 Jon Nice.
29:36.60 Stan Lemon Yeah.
29:36.72 Jon Have you ever made your own pasta?
29:39.51 Stan Lemon I have not. I have witnessed pasta be made. When we lived in Seymour, it was very common for, um i don't even know what kind of noodle that would be, ah the big, fat, flat noodles that that farmers like to make.
29:51.24 Jon Nice.
29:52.98 Stan Lemon And i will say, right, it's in a different ballpark, but those are good. Like those are, i genuinely enjoy those as well. So, you know, I was trying to think, I think is rotini the one that I don't like?
30:07.79 Stan Lemon Yeah, rotini. Rotini to me is like, there's something about rotini that just feels overly American to me. And probably, yeah it's corkscrew, right?
30:17.95 Jon That's like the the spiral noodle. Yeah.
30:21.20 Stan Lemon And it's from Italy. And i like um' um I know I'm throwing shade at something that's...
30:24.11 Jon Well, that's like when you're getting a cold pasta salad, right? Like that's the new leaves.
30:27.60 Stan Lemon Yeah, yeah exactly.
30:28.71 Jon OK.
30:28.84 Stan Lemon This is in a thousand Midwest pasta salad dishes, which is why i look at it and I'm like, eh, I don't need rotini. Yeah. Yeah.
30:40.16 Stan Lemon That's just me.
30:40.20 Jon Oh, here's, have you ever heard of masta choli?
30:43.56 Stan Lemon Yeah.
30:44.27 Jon Okay. So apparently there's like a bunch of people in my coworkers that have never heard of Masta Trolley. um The person who asked the question originally also from the Chicagoland area.
30:55.56 Jon So um maybe there's something there.
30:57.16 Stan Lemon Really? So, correct me if I'm wrong, Masa Chilli is just like a smaller penny, really. Yeah.
31:03.91 Jon Right. ah ah Does it have, don't know. There's something about if it has ridges in it or if it's smooth or,
31:13.13 Stan Lemon I thought Monster Chili had ridges in it.
31:14.85 Jon Yep.
31:15.85 Stan Lemon I listen here. So when it comes to tubular or hollow pastas, right. And yeah i know Bucatini is hollow, but Bucatini is a long pasta. It's not ah it's not what I would call a tubular hollow pasta.
31:30.03 Stan Lemon I will say that the more ridge, the more like the more surface area in general, right? The better it's be. The problem that I have with rigatoni, or not rigatoni, rotini, excuse me, is that because it's not hollow, you just hope like, you know, stuff clings to the spiral, but you don't get that.
31:47.31 Stan Lemon i don't know man. There's something magical about like a masa choli with a little bit of red sauce that's like flowed through it, you know?
31:53.80 Jon So ravioli really is the superior pasta because you literally stuff things into it.
31:59.29 Stan Lemon So ravioli, tortellini, I mean, those those are both phenomenal, right? And I think um i i will i will take any of those any day of the week. Now, what I will say is, again, the sauce that you put a ravioli in after you've cooked it, right, super important. So if you're just going to drown it in butter, like… That's not my jam, right? I want some basil. I want some tomato. I want some Parmesan, you know, kind of flowing in around. Or let's go full on cream sauce and just embrace the cheesiness of it. um That, oh man, that that sounds, I'm i'm getting hungry in it right now thinking about this.
32:39.56 Stan Lemon But um do you do you put lasagna into the pasta? Like, I mean, it's pasta, but like, is this is this worth bringing up here or not?
32:48.78 Jon Yes, I would say that lasagna pasta is its own thing.
32:53.50 Stan Lemon own thing, okay. And
32:54.32 Jon And I think it's only used for lasagna, right? Like you don't use lasagna noodles in anything else, right?
32:59.40 Stan Lemon we actually have a recipe with a ah like a meat red sauce that's dumped on top of the scoop of ricotta that uses lasagna noodles. So, you know, I mean, why not, right?
33:10.89 Jon So it's just like a deconstructed lasagna? Okay.
33:13.98 Stan Lemon It's, it's this, this recipe is not, I wouldn't, I wouldn't call it that, but it just, it works well because you break the lasagna up and, um, you get these big flat noodles and you can scoop stuff up.
33:25.12 Stan Lemon You'd like it because you can stab the heck out of it. You know?
33:27.03 Jon There we go.
33:27.76 Stan Lemon Um, listen, man, here's another thing.
33:27.77 Jon That's what I'm looking for.
33:30.58 Stan Lemon Like I think lasagna is like spaghetti in terms of like, we grew up in the Midwest and our moms probably made lasagna that, you know, I'm, I'm just guessing.
33:40.76 Stan Lemon I don't, i don't
33:41.23 Jon Did your mom use ragu?
33:43.66 Stan Lemon Oh, yeah. our kids who Like, whose mom didn't?
33:44.40 Jon and Okay. that's like ah
33:46.80 Stan Lemon we we grew We grew up in the Midwest in the 90s, man. Everybody used regu. In cottage cheese, right?
33:52.24 Jon I don't think my mom would used cottage cheese because she does not like it at all.
33:56.01 Stan Lemon Oh, okay. But she probably wasn't making a bechamel either, though, right?
33:56.96 Jon So, probably not.
33:59.88 Stan Lemon Yeah. Okay. So this is the thing. So I think legit, like I did not like lasagna growing up. Right. Mrs. Lemon makes a lasagna that is literally out of this world. We had it on Christmas day.
34:13.48 Stan Lemon And ah this year in in previous year, she's used bacon where it called for prosciutto. She used um no, is that right? Prosciutto.
34:24.77 Stan Lemon Yeah. think it's prosciutto. Anyhow, Jonathan, it was unbelievably good. Just like fantastic. So we got to make, we got to make lasagna for you sometime when you come out um and you can experience this, this dish.
34:39.58 Jon I look forward to it. We'll add it to the list. We really should start a note with all the things that I have not eaten, that recipes that the Lumens have discovered.
34:45.96 Stan Lemon The list, the list goes on.
34:47.56 Jon It does.
34:48.01 Stan Lemon So, ah okay. Naki, where do you put Naki?
34:52.59 Jon um i mean, I like it. I feel like generally are eating it in different types of dishes than what would be considered a pasta dish.
34:56.94 Stan Lemon Yeah.
35:03.69 Stan Lemon But it is, it is pasta. Like, you know, um, or is there another one that, uh, that, uh, I don't think people usually think of when they think of pasta, but again, you know, like great, you know, great, great little pasta or Chetta as well.
35:04.100 Jon It is.
35:18.74 Stan Lemon Um, I'm actually, I'm actually a big fan of Naki. I, I, have you ever had, when we do like Naki sausage and peppers in a red sauce?
35:28.54 Jon I don't think so.
35:29.70 Stan Lemon That's, that's a, that's just like, uh, don't know, man. Uh, we're going to hang out and have comfort food that, that kind of, of thing.
35:37.82 Jon Nice.
35:38.72 Stan Lemon And we use the same sauce that use for pizza, uh, just throw it on. That's kind of our go-to red sauce actually, but.
35:46.64 Jon Which I think I also learned from you, but didn't you get that from Blue Apron or one of those meal kits?
35:52.43 Stan Lemon It started off of a Blue Apron recipe probably a decade ago.
35:55.56 Jon And then you perfected it?
35:57.20 Stan Lemon Yeah. And we've we've modified it quite a bit, but it actually started as a, it was the sauce inside of a calzone recipe.
35:57.65 Jon OK.
36:03.87 Jon Oh, I've made that calzone recipe with the kale and like three different cheeses.
36:04.97 Stan Lemon Yeah. And right. Yes.
36:08.36 Jon so
36:08.59 Stan Lemon Yeah. It was delicious. I haven't actually made the calzone in a long time, but we, we had looked for a pizza sauce that I liked and I we like really struggled to find one. And I think, um, everything was too overly sweet, right? Like just, you know,
36:25.58 Stan Lemon I don't know, and ragui, right? We had found a sauce that we loved when we lived in Pittsburgh at the Shop and Save. That was only place we would find it. And we would go and we'd buy like eight jars at a time.
36:38.70 Stan Lemon And eventually stopped carrying it, you know? So, yeah. Yeah. But then ultimately we've got to, we've got to make our own. So that's what we But here's a, here's going to throw one out at you crazy here.
36:54.14 Stan Lemon Have heard of a cascatelle pasta? All right, there we go.
36:58.64 Jon I have heard of it.
37:01.73 Stan Lemon This is the sporkful pasta. Have you ever, you ever heard what this guy did?
37:06.48 Jon i don't think so.
37:06.57 Stan Lemon Dan Pashman's sporkful.
37:08.49 Jon No.
37:09.16 Stan Lemon Okay, you should look this up. There's actually a Planet of Money episode that covers it too, but Dan Pashman wanted to figure out how hard would it be to make his own pasta. And it turns out it's pretty difficult.
37:20.59 Stan Lemon um I have never actually had cascatelli. I would love to get it. But um this is his his concoction and it's supposed to be fantastic.
37:26.51 Jon I don't believe I have either.
37:30.88 Stan Lemon He created it to meet all of the pasta needs that one could ever wish for in terms of surface area and ways in which it would cling and all that good stuff.
37:41.99 Stan Lemon So I have it on my bucket list to to find a box of cascatelli. I guess Time Magazine actually listed it in the 100 Best Inventions of 2021.
37:53.44 Stan Lemon So there you All right. Well, I hope the twisties enjoy the, uh, brief.
37:59.30 Jon I don't think you even said anything controversial.
38:00.07 Stan Lemon question Yeah. I mean, I like, like, I like, I like pasta. So what am going to say? Um, it's ah it's all about how you cook it. Maybe, maybe the rotini thing, maybe that'll, that'll spark some, some, uh, but yeah.
38:12.04 Jon Maybe. There you go.
38:16.80 Stan Lemon Yeah.
38:17.51 Jon Nice. So we've talked a lot about food. i think it's time to talk about the thing that's been in the backlog since era two of the podcast has begun.
38:27.46 Stan Lemon And what would that be, John?
38:29.07 Jon AI nutrition tracking, which I think you have done a lot of.
38:33.83 Stan Lemon I have done a lot of... um I've done a lot of like, and on the drive out to Pittsburgh, we walked into Panera Bread and i opened up ChatGPT and I said, i would like lean protein, not fish.
38:51.20 Stan Lemon And I want, I think I said like 15 grams of fiber whatever, you know, do you pick two, tell me what order. And it did, right? So spit out like the chicken Mediterranean bowl. and I think I did a bowl of chili or something as well.
39:04.20 Stan Lemon Right?
39:04.68 Jon Interesting.
39:05.32 Stan Lemon Yeah.
39:05.54 Jon I have not been to Panera in years, and it looks like they've pretty much completely revamped the menu since last time I've been there.
39:14.34 Stan Lemon I mean, there's, there's still staples, but yeah, like there's, there's a lot of, there's a lot of, I think, interceptions. They've got this um Mediterranean chicken bowl thing. That's got some grains and and hummus and stuff. And it's like, I really like it.
39:25.94 Stan Lemon um And yeah, I enjoyed it.
39:26.85 Jon That was my next question. Is it any good?
39:30.12 Stan Lemon I mean, you know, and like, here's the thing too. ah A Panera baguette is probably still the best baguette going have this week. Right. Because I don't think you're getting a baguette from everywhere else. Are you?
39:41.12 Jon Probably not.
39:42.15 Stan Lemon Yeah. So, you know, unless you're making your baguettes, right? Like I think, i think there's just, it's just a decent piece of bread. And then, um, you know, you you can definitely get into the, uh, I want to be subway, uh, part of the menu. Right.
39:56.16 Stan Lemon Um, or I want to be Penn station, whatever you want to call it. But I think, I think some of those, those salad bowls are just, they're just good. They're just decent. And there's, um, there's some decent soups. Mrs. Lemon always likes this autumn squash thing that like,
40:08.17 Stan Lemon Honestly, I can't even, i don't even like the smell of it, but she just will eat her weight in it if given the choice. So, you know, it's ah it's a, it's place to stop lying.
40:15.46 Jon I'm not a big fan of squash.
40:17.89 Stan Lemon Yeah. Well, ah yeah you gotta, gotta to open your mind a little bit.
40:20.94 Jon Maybe.
40:23.30 Stan Lemon Um, but you know, yeah I use, i use chat GPT for that type of thing. I'll even do something like here. I'll go to our, our, uh, favorite fast food burger place. Here's a mine, right? Culver's.
40:34.44 Stan Lemon And I will say, Hey, uh, I am 11 grams short on protein today. and would like to minimize ah carbs, but I still want bread, right?
40:48.48 Stan Lemon And it'll spit back, you know, order a double burger, but ask them to customize it with just one piece of cheese and get the rye bread instead and skip the mayo, right? So Chachipiti will spit that out and give me a full nutritional breakdown of ah of what I want.
41:02.100 Stan Lemon But i think I think the thing you're actually more curious about is actually when i I track for a whole day. I don't do this. Just to be clear, I don't track my food every day.
41:07.79 Jon Thank you.
41:11.37 Stan Lemon I do it in spurts to make sure that I'm hitting my macros primarily, right? Like I've got a certain amount of protein i want get, certain amount fiber I want to get. And what I will do is, you know, let's just, as an example, get up in the morning, I'm gonna have breakfast. my My stock breakfast here is a bowl of shredded wheat with three quarters of a serving of 2%, or sorry, not 2%, whole milk, whole milk, excuse me. um
41:42.34 Stan Lemon Two dashes of ground cinnamon and about 110 grams of banana sliced up into it, right? So,
41:50.69 Jon How many bananas does that stand?
41:50.92 Stan Lemon so it's It's about one banana. It's about one banana.
41:54.04 Jon Okay.
41:54.42 Stan Lemon Yeah. Yeah. I've got a scale in the kitchen. Like I'm constantly using the scale. So I just, I just like, I know these things, right? So I know, I know what, what, what I'm going But so what I will do is I will open up chat GPT and I'll go into active conversation mode and I will, I will tell it what I'm having.
42:10.96 Stan Lemon Now, the nice thing about having the same breakfast all the time is like, I can say, Hey, I'm having the shredded wheat breakfast again.
42:11.49 Jon Nice.
42:15.54 Stan Lemon It's like, Oh, okay. Got it. You know, um, store that sucker in a memory and you're good to go. But then as the the day goes on, i will do something like I will go have a scoop of cottage cheese, right?
42:24.64 Jon Come.
42:27.28 Stan Lemon I like good culture cottage cheese. I think I've plugged this before. And i will take a picture of the good culture container and I will send it to chat GPT in the same conversation that I had breakfast, right? And I'll say, you know, one serving, right?
42:44.10 Stan Lemon And ah it knows, you know, through through past conversations to keep a running total of my day, right? So I'll do like one conversation per day. And um I also do stuff that's a little more complex. Like, you know, we use HelloFresh periodically here. And I will basically give a link to the HelloFresh meal for the day. And then I will take a picture of my serving, right?
43:07.40 Stan Lemon and I'll say, estimate this portion of this recipe, right? Sometimes it's little more, sometimes less, like, you know, the kids maybe don't like a vegetable, so I'll have a bigger helping of a vegetable. I gotta like, you know, fight them for a piece of pork filet.
43:24.61 Stan Lemon And i don't measure everything I serve out, right? I just take the picture and I tell Chachipiti, like, get close. Right. That that's actually, and I do that with other recipes besides HelloFresh. HelloFresh is really easy because it's all online. Right. But, um, if I've got something that I've clipped from, uh, a website into paprika, right. Cause I use paprika for recipe tracking. I will, uh, just share it into chat GPT and I'll take a picture.
43:50.31 Stan Lemon Sometimes I will take a picture of my fully assembled plate on the scale. Right. right?
43:55.29 Jon Right.
43:56.40 Stan Lemon that you've got like a total weight of everything I've piled on the plate and then just let Chachupiti figure it out. And this is what's kind of blown me away is Chachupiti will get pretty reasonable with estimates when in terms of what is on the plate.
44:11.52 Stan Lemon And and i you're were like, well, you know how do you know that, right? i have I have gone through the process of tediously weighing meals, right? And I have a general sense of, you know this this looks like 200 grams of chicken, this example.
44:28.71 Stan Lemon And I've just, you know, anecdotally, a couple of times spot checking as well, right? How much, you know, how much chicken do you think this is? And I've actually weighed it and then like like look at it, right? But the cool thing, the thing that I really like is if I do a conversation in Chachaputee for a day,
44:45.38 Stan Lemon It can total up everything as I go, you know, and um ah keep it running. so So then, you know, where this gets even more interesting now is say I've got Pilates class on a Tuesday evening, right?
44:59.56 Stan Lemon It now knows what I've had for breakfast, for lunch and a snack. And I can say, hey, I'm going to Pilates. I'm going to have dinner afterwards, right? I would like to not be in carb crash mode during Pilates.
45:12.29 Stan Lemon What should I eat right now? And because it's got all the context from things I've done previously, it also starts to then get a sense of like what I have in the pantry. So like, Hey Stan, actually half of a fig bar would be a really good choice before you go in.
45:23.80 Stan Lemon Or, you know, those stinger cookies that you bought for your bicycle rides, eat one of those before you, you walk into Pilates class.
45:28.47 Jon Nice.
45:29.44 Stan Lemon Right. um And, and then, you know, you keep a total up to and all that. But um this was end interesting when I wanted to see if I was getting magnesium in my day, because, ah you know, like how how much magnesium does, does the back of the chicken breast flat say it has?
45:48.26 Stan Lemon I don't know. i don't think, I don't think it's on there.
45:48.53 Jon No idea.
45:49.66 Stan Lemon I'm honestly but like, you know, Chachi PD can do some more research to, to figure all that out.
45:53.29 Jon Sure.
45:54.21 Stan Lemon So, um,
45:55.46 Jon This is interesting. um So like, as you were describing this and having a different conversation for each day, like that sounds like it should be an app, but then you talk about all these other, like not necessarily consistent things that you can then do with that information. I think that's when we step into this realm of no, maybe this should live in chat GPT.
46:22.30 Jon Basically like your, your AI assistant.
46:26.34 Stan Lemon Yeah, like i I've used, there's an app called Food Noms. I've also used, um what's the other one that's really popular? There's another food counter app that is blinking me on, or I'm blinking on right now.
46:38.28 Stan Lemon um
46:39.12 Jon Well, Livestrong had one.
46:41.17 Stan Lemon Livestrong had one. I'm thinking of Chronometer, right? and And just to be clear, like Chronometer, great app. Foodnoms, great app. They also have ah AI, both of them have AI picture taking options, right? And I will say that I think with both of those, my experiences, they undershot in a way that made me question the accuracy of their AI bit, okay? um They also have like AI-based ah recipe or, you know, calculation, right? So you can say, here's here's my recipe, go figure out what 100 grams of this would be, you know, served out, right? um And and those those are those are better.
47:23.11 Stan Lemon What I think is the the frontier models and and everything that's going on with the the big two, right, Claude and and ah OpenAI, they're They're just better, right? They're just ahead of the curve. And so just letting those tools do what they do has has worked out well. And yeah, the rest of the context, all the stuff that it has amassed about me, right? Which some people going find creepy. I find useful.
47:51.40 Stan Lemon plays into this. And so, you know, again, like I talked about applies class, here's another example. I, when, when I was riding this summer, I needed uh, I needed something that was high in protein. I wanted something that was low in sodium, um, but also carb heavy, right? So this this is like a weird combo here. And I needed it to not melt, uh,
48:12.100 Stan Lemon when it was in my back pocket and it was a hundred degrees out. Right. So chat GPT goes and finds me like the perfect fig bar whatever, blah, blah, blah. Right. And, um, uh, that, you know, it knows that I have that now. So that when I want to go for a bike ride, I can literally say, Hey, here's what I've had today. what do I need next? You know what I've got in the pantry? Cause I don't want to always have the same fig bar every time, you know, that kind of thing. And and I think there's just, um,
48:40.34 Stan Lemon there's really powerful about that. And here's here's the thing too. So the, with all of the food tracking apps that are out there, uh, you have to, you have to weigh stuff. Like there's, it's just, it's, it's, um, nothing's accurate enough without weight.
48:55.68 Stan Lemon And there's a lot of manual entry. Like there's a lot of form based entry that is tedious when you're doing this all the time. You know, got to skip,
49:03.59 Jon Especially when you have 10 minutes between meetings to grab something to eat for lunch.
49:08.29 Stan Lemon Yeah, all of that, right? And like you can scan, a lot of them made it easier, but you can scan UPC codes, right?
49:14.20 Jon Sure.
49:14.85 Stan Lemon um But that still takes time. And for me, one of the things that i've I've really enjoyed because I use the conversation mode on ChatGPT a lot, is i i honest to goodness, will start a conversation and let it run for 10 minutes while I'm preparing lunch.
49:31.84 Stan Lemon And I will just say out loud to what I'm doing. You know, I scooped out, you know, 30 grams of good culture,
49:35.53 Jon Yep.
49:40.19 Stan Lemon cottage cheese. I'm getting four thin slices of Boar's Head Tavern ham, and I'm putting it on a piece of Dave's Killer Bread. you know And Chachi Petit can get all of that, go find out all the nutritional data for it and keep it running tally. you know um But the recommendations, I think, are where it just it just goes the next mile. you know hey Stan, you haven't had enough food that's going to satiate you. You're going to want to snack around 3 You know?
50:10.92 Jon Yeah. And yeah, it adjusts with the context. Like you could use this if you were going to Disneyland um and do things that way.
50:14.72 Stan Lemon Yeah.
50:20.30 Jon like, hey, I'm going to walk 13,000 steps today.
50:20.96 Stan Lemon There you go.
50:23.04 Jon So. Yep. so
50:23.100 Stan Lemon yeah Yeah. And have it make adjustments, all that, right? Yeah. the i had We had a weird recipe from HelloFresh that created a stupid amount of this bean and rice side. I mean, like it was and way more than we needed.
50:38.40 Stan Lemon And after day day two I was out of the main protein, right? So I went and I grilled up some chicken and some peppers as I'm as i' inclined to do anyhow. And I had it with this, you know, it was ah it was a bean rice and corn thing.
50:54.08 Stan Lemon And what was so cool is i could say, hey, I just grilled up a chicken breast and onions and peppers. Take a picture of here. Also, I'm going to do, you know, 150 grams of, you know, whatever that was called mixture.
51:06.98 Stan Lemon And I just got it. Like I just got it and it plugged it in. And um that type of convenience, I think makes food tracking less painful, you know?
51:10.28 Jon Nice.
51:16.87 Jon Absolutely. You are very close to having your own personal Jarvis.
51:22.21 Stan Lemon Yeah. Man, I think it at this point I would probably call it Friday, not Jarvis, but yeah.
51:31.65 Stan Lemon Was Friday superior to Jarvis? I think so. Don't you?
51:34.63 Jon I think so.
51:35.91 Stan Lemon The question is when, ah yeah like you know yeah, exactly.
51:37.92 Jon Where does Ultron play into all this? Yeah.
51:42.60 Stan Lemon And where do you draw that line of of demarcation? um
51:45.75 Jon Right.
51:46.66 Stan Lemon So, you know, here's the other thing to think about too. I think it's it's pretty natural in 2025 to take pictures of food, right?
51:54.15 Jon Yep.
51:54.72 Stan Lemon ah And I think this is... the other The other nice thing about this is you can take pictures and you can coalesce up later. So you don't have actually do it all in the moment, right?
52:05.20 Jon Sure.
52:06.08 Stan Lemon And um there's a little bit of that convenience that also makes this super handy because you're not... You don't have... like If I don't record everything right now, I lose track of it.
52:18.63 Stan Lemon Whereas I've got the picture and I'm like, you know, Chachapiti, give it your best shot. Cause to be honest with you, like I'm my, my food intake is not going to live or die based upon a hundred calories or a gram of fat or whatever. Right? Like I want to know that I'm, um, in the right realm of my targets and, um,
52:39.68 Stan Lemon yeah know um'm I'm focused on establishing habits. So I don't do this all the time, but I do it to make sure that I'm like still on on track with how I want to eat and still enjoying it.
52:50.50 Stan Lemon But you know the nice thing is like i can I can have pictures from my road trip to Pittsburgh and be like, hey you know how bad was yesterday right in terms of all the crap I ate?
52:58.97 Jon Right.
53:00.51 Stan Lemon Yeah. now
53:02.50 Jon I mean, cannolis, cupcakes.
53:05.19 Stan Lemon They were small cannolis. and in Yeah.
53:06.72 Jon Okay.
53:07.30 Stan Lemon in in my the The cupcakes I had way too much of, but know, I want to say it was, it was Newsy, but yeah.
53:08.72 Jon I like it.
53:13.80 Jon like it
53:15.49 Stan Lemon No, I think here's the thing too. It's super accessible. I actually encourage everybody to try this. um You can plug in recipes. You can take pictures of recipes. That's the other thing too. Like you got, you don't have to go find a website for recipe.
53:27.75 Stan Lemon You can pull out the church cookbook Take a picture of it and you can say, figure out the nutritional value of this after cooked. Because that's one of the tricky things. Like if you think about this, right? So think about my my chili recipe, which I know you've had a number of times.
53:39.24 Jon All right.
53:40.13 Stan Lemon I could plug in all the ingredients individually into something like food noms, right? Here's the ground beef. Here's the chili powder. Here are the beans, et cetera. When you cook it, you' you're changing the, um, uh, the calorific value from the back of all that packaging, you know? And you're also adding liquid, you're cooking off liquid. Like you can't just take the weight of the ground beef plus the weight of the beans and then come up with the weight of the final product.
54:06.72 Stan Lemon And all of that, all of the math required to get to a usable number at the other end of that, Chachipiti is fantastic at. and And so, you know, you take a picture of the recipe, give me a cooked value, and then you can weigh out your chili, right?
54:20.61 Stan Lemon And say, I just had, you know, a 300 gram bowl. what what's What's that look like? Like it's it's just, it's just, it's just crazy easy.
54:26.19 Jon Yep.
54:28.66 Stan Lemon Here's the thing I'll say too. um my experience with Claude is that it's just as good as ChatGPT at doing this. So if you're a Claude person, go use Claude. I suspect that Gemini is probably just as good too.
54:41.86 Stan Lemon So.
54:42.98 Jon All right, so this is all very cool. Once you're in the routine, um how can our listeners take what they heard and put into action? What's the first step? Like you already have defined macros that you're trying to hit. So maybe it's like, hey, how do I figure out what those are?
54:59.30 Stan Lemon Yeah, just ask Trash BT. You know, I'm a 40-year-old male, right?
55:01.46 Jon Yeah?
55:03.68 Stan Lemon Here's my height, my weight. Here's my level of activity. What should my targets be? what it's going to do, it's going to go and and pull off the and NHS calculator, cross-reference it, something. if If you're smart, you say like, you know, what does Dr. Adrian Chavez say about this? That's that's the nutrition stuff like on Instagram. But, you know, just just ask it because i think I think you'll actually get within a ballpark um of what what you what you need.
55:28.22 Stan Lemon I think the other thing too is like, you you can do different things based upon what outcomes you're you're trying to hit. And so that's another thing, like you can you can tell Chachiputi, like I want to increase lean muscle mass, right?
55:40.22 Stan Lemon Well, then I probably need more protein or it turns out that...
55:42.63 Jon I don't want to be feeling like i need to fall asleep at two in the afternoon.
55:46.85 Stan Lemon Yeah, that or, or, you know, I want to feel more full at, you know, 4 p.m. Or I'm not sleeping well, like my magnesium could be low, right? You know, like all all these different things.
55:57.45 Stan Lemon Like I just.
55:57.97 Jon I'm going to run a marathon next month.
55:58.29 Stan Lemon just talk Yeah, yeah.
56:01.64 Jon I am not, but...
56:03.14 Stan Lemon Can't can't hit your standing goal, but you're going to marathon. Here we go. No, but but like I do think, um I do think that's. that's all, you know, worth just asking about because it's, it's really good. All these things are really good at going and finding data and figuring out how you fit into the data and then, you know, drawing conclusions from it. So, um,
56:26.53 Stan Lemon You know, give a shot and see it see up sell rolls. I think the other thing too, ah you know, like i get a little weary of people who talk ChatGPT like it's their best friend or their their personal coach or imaginary friend or whatever.
56:41.54 Stan Lemon But I think if you treat it as a information system and recognize that it can do the, like you can validate the work that it's going to do, right? And I always recommend like when you have,
56:54.18 Stan Lemon You know, tell like go tell me how many calories I should have today. Ask it for sources, right? Like explain to me how you got there. If you're not doing that, it it kind of goes back to this codex thing I was talking about the beginning, right? Like you got to check the work and use the techniques to check the work. If you let it do too much, it's probably going probably screw you over.
57:14.60 Jon Yeah, I think that I've been using ChatGPT a lot the last couple of weeks. um And it's not that it's this magic wand that just gives you what you're looking for. um i think what it does do is it accelerates the process. So you can do a lot of things faster.
57:35.88 Stan Lemon Yeah, and you know it can take some of the the monotony out of out of it. It also can create, I think, a clarity on questions you're trying to find answers to. you know How much protein should I have today?
57:49.60 Stan Lemon um You can absolutely go and find that out on the internet. and You can plug all your data into a calculator, blah, blah, blah. Um, but you can also just ask chat GPT and then it has that information too. So that the next time you say, Hey, have I met my protein goal for today?
58:05.54 Stan Lemon it can, it can say, as a matter of fact, you didn't, you know, go eat, uh, go eat a pound of chicken or whatever, you know?
58:09.56 Jon I like
58:14.02 Jon it. This ah kind of kicks off an idea that we should probably add to the podcast backlog, but we should revisit the budget episode in the age of AI.
58:24.16 Stan Lemon Ooh. Ooh.
58:26.22 Jon So.
58:26.31 Stan Lemon John, are you, are you willing to take the hands off the wheel long enough to let chat GPT do your budget?
58:32.23 Jon Maybe.
58:33.12 Stan Lemon Maybe. Ooh. All right. Yeah.
58:35.22 Jon There's AI tools built into Monarch now, um which I have not actually explored.
58:40.31 Stan Lemon They're okay. I like, i don't know. They're okay. We, um, actually, so, uh, funny, funny a little ti bit, and then all we'll, we'll, uh, maybe say lovey, but, uh, Monarch did a game, like a quiz game.
58:54.40 Jon Yes, I did this.
58:54.90 Stan Lemon You're straight. Did you just, okay. Did you do it with Mrs. Colmar? Did you just do it solo?
58:58.66 Jon I did solo.
58:59.62 Stan Lemon Oh, okay. Go do it. Go play it again with Mrs. Colmar. Cause I played it with Mrs. Lemon and, uh, it was very telling.
59:05.44 Jon Eye-opening. OK.
59:06.34 Stan Lemon Yeah. Well, it was just, it was, um, eyeopening is a good way to put it. Yeah. Eyeopening. Yeah. So, all right. Well, Jonathan, next time we talk, I believe you will be back from Disneyland and I will know all about your trip.
59:17.21 Jon I'm back from Disneyland.
59:19.20 Stan Lemon I, uh, would encourage you maybe to take some pictures of your food.
59:23.60 Jon Take pictures of my food.
59:23.88 Stan Lemon What you do with those, what you do with those pictures. I don't, you know, that's between you and
59:26.85 Jon My goal has always been to be more like you in photographing things on trips because historically I'm bad at it. um But like you end up taking photos all the time. And I think you just um don't have perception issues as much as I do.
59:41.31 Jon All
59:42.24 Stan Lemon I have no idea what that means, but we'll talk about that when we get back. So there you go Until next time, Jonathan.
59:44.64 Jon all right. Sounds good. Until next time.