00:56.12 Stan Lemon So Jonathan, what do you want to talk about today?
00:58.62 Jon um I have no idea, Stan. We didn't have this actually on the calendar. It just kind of happened. So I think however the pod goes, it goes.
01:06.84 Stan Lemon you You wanted a spontaneous podcast, did you not?
01:11.22 Jon Not that I remember specifically. Or you mean like in general, overall?
01:13.75 Stan Lemon i such yeah I thought you said we would just like have the conversation that we normally have, but we would record it.
01:19.99 Jon Absolutely. Yeah. So we'll see what happens, Stan.
01:22.95 Stan Lemon So on a Sunday afternoon... during Lent, mind you, what is the conversation that we would have, Jonathan?
01:30.17 Jon um Generally, we would complain about work.
01:34.53 Stan Lemon We're not going to do that on the pod. No, no, no, no. Danger, Will Robinson. Danger, danger. yeah
01:42.23 Stan Lemon What do you have planned for today? Anything?
01:44.47 Jon I have nothing else planned for today. Did church this morning. um Cooked pizza yesterday. So now I'm just with sugar.
01:51.16 Stan Lemon with With sugar?
01:53.75 Jon Yes, all 10 grams of it stand, which I think is mostly to feed the yeast.
01:54.46 Stan Lemon Okay. All 10 grams of it.
01:58.11 Jon So.
01:58.52 Stan Lemon Incredible. You've learned nothing.
02:00.54 Jon I mean, you sent me like this overly complex spreadsheet where you can adjust your ratios and things like that based on how big the pizzas want to be and how many people you're feeding.
02:10.62 Jon um But this is literally called the easiest pizza you'll ever make. So.
02:15.03 Stan Lemon the The blog, my blog, has the like canonical, no spreadsheets required, just the canonical, this is you know the recipe.
02:25.72 Jon Okay. You haven't posted on your blog recently, so I have not been there because I am one of the people who gets email notifications every time you post something new.
02:26.97 Stan Lemon All right.
02:34.23 Stan Lemon I wonder if that still works, to be honest with you. The the last post I made was in October.
02:36.35 Jon Oh, OK.
02:39.48 Stan Lemon And then the one before that had been multiple years.
02:40.29 Jon Which I believe I saw.
02:41.64 Stan Lemon So, but what do you gonna I'm actually, I'm waiting the clock out here. I am i think I've finally exhausted my tokens for Claude.
02:55.10 Stan Lemon And I'm quickly burning down on Codex for the week.
02:55.16 Jon Really?
02:58.45 Stan Lemon Claude will reset here in 16 hours and 22 minutes. Not that everybody's counting. Codex, I've got a couple of days left and then, ah and then I'll, I'll reset fully.
03:08.49 Stan Lemon But I'll tell you what, um I have been pretty impressed with this Sonnet 4.6 model.
03:15.38 Jon Have you mostly been ah working on the exercise app that you haven't released yet?
03:15.70 Stan Lemon I feel like the,
03:19.21 Stan Lemon I have been lots of refactoring. Yeah, you know, refactoring just make things like coherent and cognitive, like to reduce the cognitive distance when I open up and look at the actual code. Because what I've noticed, this thing, um when I started building this, I did not have a plan, right? um I had a problem.
03:39.06 Jon But you had a problem, which is where all good ideas start.
03:42.42 Stan Lemon Yeah. And the, the solution to said problem was very meandering with some non-trivial, like pull the rug out from underneath you moments too. But where it stands now, I think functionally it's like decent. And so my main concern now is how do I ensure no regressions?
04:05.53 Stan Lemon um And, you know, normally you would write tests, right? But, Testing in Swift ui is absolutely terrible. Like it is is just a really miserable experience. um And so in order to verify the things that I want, I have to get things out of view components and into testable components.
04:26.94 Stan Lemon And that's that's what I've been using the robots to like do as of late. so
04:32.92 Jon Interesting. you know
04:34.13 Stan Lemon So it's not the most fun work, I'll say that much.
04:36.73 Jon Once upon a time when you were trying to convince me to be a software engineer, ah you had me writing unit tests and code you wrote. And now the robots have taken over.
04:48.02 Stan Lemon Now the robots have taken over, yeah. I mean, there's there's really no better way to understand how a piece of code works than the right tests for it. um in In this situation, what I've got is,
04:58.90 Stan Lemon yeah like a a ux that's good or at least good enough for what i want but there's too much business logic baked into how the ux works so i got to get that to a place where i can test it reasonably so i had this where i i'm like planning out refactoring and then i tell you know claude go do it right and then works through the the problem space and then afterwards i say what should i manually qa
05:06.92 Jon Nice.
05:22.97 Jon All right.
05:24.22 Stan Lemon which I have to do because we're pulling stuff out of the UX or like out of the UI components into, know, business logic components. And, um, It's not the most fun thing, to be honest with you. And I i keep struggling with this whole Swift UI experience, the right and actual UI test.
05:43.99 Stan Lemon it is It is just miserable. And I don't like doing it. I don't think anybody likes doing it. Apple has not figured out a way to make this not completely stink. And so it's I begrudge it.
05:55.54 Stan Lemon This is not the part of the the development lifecycle I like.
06:00.41 Jon Fair enough. Maybe there's somebody out there who does.
06:04.12 Stan Lemon Yeah, it could be, but I, you know, to me, this is just a huge technology and platform gaps that, uh, that Apple has not addressed, but you know, it is what it is.
06:12.47 Jon Which is sad, because they used to love their developers.
06:12.51 Stan Lemon So, and I mean, I think they do, I think they do, but the, this is a space this, I don't even know how to articulate why it's, it's this bad.
06:23.11 Stan Lemon I think, um, You have to be doing ui applications to experience this pain. And I'm not sure that the people that are building these tools do enough of that to just understand how awful it is.
06:37.47 Stan Lemon other thing too is like, sometimes you only know how awful something is if you know how good it is elsewhere. So like writing UI tests for a React app is, you know, a really nice experience.
06:49.15 Stan Lemon But I don't know that, you know, I mean, who knows what what's going on at Apple, but like you have to have that comparison point to know, Oh, this is bad because it could be so much better.
06:59.50 Stan Lemon You know? Yeah.
07:00.59 Jon Right. Interesting. Well, I'm sure that Swift will continue to evolve over time.
07:07.51 Stan Lemon Yeah, it will. It will. I'm sure too. It is. I think I've told you before. It's fascinating to me how much the robots struggle with Swift just in general. It's a lot better than it was like a year ago. But because it's a newish language and the language has changed so dramatically over time that the robots have a lot of bad information, you know?
07:27.64 Stan Lemon So speaking of robots, John, we haven't gotten a resume update recently.
07:28.79 Jon Yep.
07:33.15 Stan Lemon How is the resume project going?
07:36.06 Jon ah We will say that it's been on hold. Basically, I did follow it all the way through the end, and then I was utterly disappointed in what it ah kind of spat out.
07:46.65 Jon so
07:47.48 Stan Lemon Why were you disappointed? What was it about it that disappointed you?
07:50.68 Jon So basically, I was trying to compile this overall, i mean, it's basically like a CV where it lists out every single thing that I've done kind of across my career, volunteering, things of that nature, um and then really take the specific steps of, hey, I held these three jobs and did these specific things at once kind of as this master document um that you could then use a source material or go pull from. um So I went through this. I think that I probably answered somewhere ah like 120 questions from ChatGPT about individual career, ah individual jobs I had, things of that nature. um And in the end, it's like, okay, give me the whole thing. And it was two and a half pages long.
08:41.45 Stan Lemon Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. So i got to back up a little bit. It asked you a hundred questions. What did you do to get it to ask you a hundred questions?
08:52.95 Jon um This has been long enough ago that I don't remember, Stan. But this is generally how i approach these types of projects. um is like It's like, hey, here's what I'm trying to do. Let's take our time, ask me questions, interview me to really figure out um the details needed to compile this end result.
09:12.15 Jon um So I very much will do it like that. Generally, it will tell me Like, hey, here are 30 questions at a time. And im like, no, I'm not going to try to answer 30 questions in this one chat window. Give them one at a time, and then we'll move on.
09:28.18 Stan Lemon I actually, it's funny. I think that the, here's multiple questions I need answered as a response from ai is is a really awful experience.
09:38.66 Jon Hmm.
09:38.97 Stan Lemon it It hinges upon you numbering things in a way that matches contextually. Like you can choose to skip one and like, what does it do with that? I really think the from the experience side, it needs to get more like question A, question B, question C, right?
09:55.63 Stan Lemon And maybe even give you multiple options.
09:55.96 Jon Which I think it does if you're in advanced voice mode. So I don't know what the disconnect is there.
10:01.56 Stan Lemon Yeah. It's probably just like the editor. They haven't yet gotten the editor up to snuff. I will say Claude Code sometimes, and I don't know what dictates when it snaps into this mode, but sometimes it will actually give me um ah in the terminal, like a ah multi-step form to fill out.
10:21.25 Jon Mm-hmm.
10:22.07 Stan Lemon And it'll always give me like, here's four options. And then the fourth one is always, or tell me what else to do. Right. And so like, Hey, here's it. And when it does it, it's super cool. I've shared some screenshots with, uh, with some colleagues before, but I just don't know like what decides for it to do that versus list stuff out for me and and you know roll with it. Because as as of late here, working with the Sonnet 4.6 model, I have not encountered that at all.
10:48.50 Stan Lemon um When Opus 4.5 came out, like over, gosh, was that over a winter break? I hit it a couple of times, but just it's not consistent, right?
11:00.06 Stan Lemon So I don't know what's going on. But I think there's like, you got to build the UX for it. And you have to, there's got to be something that encourages the model to use that versus a normal, like, here's a list of questions.
11:10.28 Stan Lemon And I just don't think they've cracked that nut yet.
11:11.33 Jon I
11:12.28 Stan Lemon I haven't seen anything like this in ChatGPT on the text side and not in the Codex app either.
11:18.10 Jon wonder if you could prompt it to do that.
11:21.74 Stan Lemon um Yeah, maybe. i mean, yeah it's entirely possible. I would think like ask me one question at a time. Like like if I think ah right now, if i ask ChatGPT, create 20 questions for me and ask them to me one by one and then summarize the findings at the end, you know, I think it would do that.
11:39.05 Stan Lemon I would hope.
11:39.40 Jon Right. So this kind of, it reminds me of some AI stuff that I have done in the last couple of weeks. ah One of them is the HubSpot evangelist, Kyle Jepson, basically came up this with this prompt to put in into Breeze Assistant, which is the um AI chatbot built into HubSpot.
12:02.29 Jon um And it was basically like this knowledge exam for HubSpot admins. It's like, how deeply do you know at out of admin HubSpot. I think it ended up being 10 questions, something like that, and would grade you on different things and give you kind of next steps of things to learn. It was super cool, but it did give me all 10 of those at the same time.
12:24.98 Jon um And at the time I was messing around with it, like it was pretty in the weeds, deep stuff um for what it was doing.
12:25.70 Stan Lemon Yeah.
12:34.19 Jon So I didn't actually go through the whole exercise yet because I didn't have the time. um But that's to say, like, hey, the these are really cool. I think that one of the things that you have going for you in your code stuff that maybe the general end user of ChatGPT does not have is you are literally feeding it a whole code base and...
12:58.45 Jon language and all the things there and it gives a bunch of context to what you are working on. um I am starting to see the same thing within HubSpot, where now HubSpot, which they are calling the agentic customer platform, moving away from CRN language, um has all this context about what is going on in your business or what platform you're on and things like that, that I think this is kind of the next step for the power of AI is using it in context of where you're working. And this was kind of the promise of what Apple intelligence was supposed to be as well.
13:37.71 Stan Lemon Yeah. Apple intelligence. Did I, I can't remember if i said this in the last podcast, but the, the 24, uh, 20, sorry, 26.4 version dropped. There's really nothing of consequence as far as and new Siri goes.
13:50.31 Jon Yeah.
13:51.33 Stan Lemon So, um, Yeah. I don't know Super annoying. Super annoying. But um I'm actually, as as we're talking, i'm I'm testing this out. So I said, i gave ChachiPedia a prompt. I said, ask me 10 questions about my health, but ask them to me one by one. And after you're done, summarize them all.
14:09.74 Stan Lemon So it has it has done this. It said question one of 10, what is your primary health goal right now? List me some options. Had to type them in free form, but you know, it's good. I'm on question eight. So before we're done with the podcast, i'll be able to tell you how the summary works. But I think i think the, um like I was pretty specific with the prompt, ask me X number of questions about topic, but ask them one by one. And then after you're done, summarize them all. So I think that's like pretty prescriptive.
14:36.17 Jon You could have had a prompted it to give you multiple choice answers too, probably.
14:42.83 Stan Lemon Oh, okay.
14:43.25 Jon Ask me 10 multiple choice questions.
14:46.35 Stan Lemon Yeah, that would make it easier. See, i feel like i feel like I'm getting more prescriptive than i want to be though, right? Like I want it to infer a little
14:54.51 Jon Right. So like in the moment, I don't generally think about that. It's like if I came to you with a question, it's like, hey, Stan, how should I think about my investment portfolio balances?
15:06.22 Jon but But something like that. um So you don't get to that level of detail when you're asking specific questions um in the moment without really thinking about it and being intentional about it.
15:17.20 Stan Lemon Yeah, so question 10, it asked and gave me a summary up to that point, which is not what I wanted it.
15:23.56 Jon Hmm.
15:24.57 Stan Lemon And then gave me another summary after it did the 10. the the ten But I'm curious now, but why don't we do this? Ask me five questions, one by one, using multiple choice about my Lego preferences.
15:42.38 Stan Lemon wanna see how it does it? We'll do that we'll do this live.
15:43.77 Jon Let's do it. Do live.
15:44.67 Stan Lemon All right. Question one of five. When you build Lego, what type of experience do you prefer? A highly detailed display models that look great on a shelf. B play focus sets with action features. C technical builds with gears, motors, and mechanisms. D large immersive builds that take many hours or days. E quick, satisfying builds under one to two hours.
16:06.41 Stan Lemon I, none of these are actually what I would prefer.
16:09.100 Jon kind of like an ANC kind of person, aren't you?
16:10.28 Stan Lemon um
16:12.84 Stan Lemon probably Probably, well, no not i no, I don't really care about technical builds with gears, motors, and mechanisms. Highly detailed display models and then large immersive builds is probably, so it's it's A and D. So I'm going to go with, um actually, let's try this.
16:22.79 Jon Can
16:24.80 Stan Lemon Let's do A and D and see how it handles that.
16:29.32 Stan Lemon think in question two of five, which themes interest you most? Real world vehicles, architecture and famous landmarks, with space and science, fantasy or medieval worlds, pop culture franchises, modular city buildings. Well, definitely pop culture, right?
16:44.41 Jon I end up with the friend set?
16:46.38 Stan Lemon what Could one have a franchise. Within pop culture franchises, which type appeals most? Here we go, John.
16:50.54 Jon um Nice.
16:51.30 Stan Lemon Star Wars, superheroes, Harry Potter, classic movies like Back to the Future, Ghostbusters, et cetera, or video games?
16:58.100 Jon Oh. So this is this was contextual based on your last question, which it would not have been if it asked you five questions at the same time.
16:59.03 Stan Lemon I'm going to go A or D.
17:02.86 Stan Lemon It was, yeah. It adapted. Yeah, yeah, which which is also pretty cool, right? So definitely wouldn't have zeroed in.
17:09.17 Jon Yep.
17:10.36 Stan Lemon So I give it A or D. How important is scale and size to you? A, bigger the better. I want centerpiece statement builds. B, medium-sized display models that fit easily on a shelf. C, smaller collectible display pieces are fine if they look sharp. And D, size does not matter as long as the design is excellent.
17:28.39 Stan Lemon Ooh, this tricky, John. I think...
17:30.95 Jon I feel like if it gets too big, you would be annoyed. Right.
17:34.22 Stan Lemon Yeah, I mean, this is the reason why I have not bought the Titanic, right? It's probably a beautiful set. i I just have no desire to to go that big. all right, so we'll do, I'm gonna do size does not matter as long as the design is excellent. thinking question 505, what level of budget are you comfortable with for a single set?
17:56.17 Stan Lemon So A, under 50, B, 50 to 150, C, 150 to 300, D, 300 to 600, E, 600 plus. So this is fascinating to me. It has given me ab B, C, D, E as options for all of them.
18:09.08 Stan Lemon And I've responded with letter A or B.
18:09.73 Jon Mm-hmm.
18:13.28 Stan Lemon Here's what gonna do. I'm gonna say, budget is less important than my happiness,
18:22.51 Stan Lemon which is not a like not a letter. And so let's see what says. Based on your answers, you prefer detailed display builds and long immersive experiences. You like pop culture. Star Wars and classic classic movies both appeal. Design quality matters more than size, and budget is not the primary constraint. Here are high signal recommendations that match your profile.
18:41.74 Stan Lemon right, Jonathan.
18:42.60 Jon How many of them do you have?
18:42.99 Stan Lemon What...
18:43.49 Jon Okay.
18:44.30 Stan Lemon ah Actually, interestingly, none of the ones that they recommend, but they over-rotated, I think, on the um pop culture piece. So the first set it recommends is the UCS Millennium Falcon, the big one, 7,500 pieces.
18:54.72 Jon Hmm.
19:01.96 Stan Lemon Then the UCS At-At, and then the really, really big Back to the Future set.
19:08.28 Jon Hmm.
19:08.49 Stan Lemon and then Ghostbusters, which the Ghostbusters car is pretty cool. I won't lie. Like the wagon, like that that's solid.
19:13.76 Jon Nice.
19:14.63 Stan Lemon But it gives me actual links. And then it talks about its decision framework, which, you know, not bad. I'll take it. and I'll take it. So i guess i guess the key is precision of the prompt, which, you know, to no one's surprised if you've used.
19:28.24 Jon Well, and that decision framework probably comes out of your custom instructions too, right? Because don't you have it like explain your reasoning and
19:33.99 Stan Lemon Oh, I'm sure. yeah, because I have very specific custom instructions in terms of analysis and design. You know, interestingly too, this provided direct links to the Lego site for each of the things that was recommending.
19:50.60 Stan Lemon um And that's another thing that I have in my custom instruction set, like cite your sources, you know, provide me links.
19:50.83 Jon Nice.
19:57.63 Stan Lemon And actually here, just because I'm curious, let me just real quick check. Just go to lego.com or where does it go? It's being a little slow, John, because we're recording.
20:10.09 Jon That one's not my fault. My internet has been solid for a whole episode in 20 minutes, knock on wood.
20:17.10 Stan Lemon There you go. Oh, this is interesting. haven't actually seen it do this So when I tap on Lego icons back to the future time machine, it actually pulls up a more detailed pain.
20:27.88 Stan Lemon um And then it does include a source to Amazon because I tell it that I prefer Amazon as a retailer. That's cool. That's cool. It does not have, oh, there it is. It does have a lego.com reference, but it it does include, it this is so cool. So it includes a review on Reddit of the particular set, a review on YouTube of the set, and then a link to both Target and Amazon. Looks like there's a Walmart one too. I think Target's another retailer that I might mention in my custom instructions.
20:58.95 Stan Lemon So there you go.
20:59.30 Jon Nice. I mean,
21:00.33 Stan Lemon A little little live AI demo.
21:00.94 Jon and AEO is crazy stan um and like it really is the new SEO at this point but basically like AEO you it's basic you measure share of where you show up and answer engines um and like you optimize for questions and they highly rank user generated content so you'll often see reddit show up um these reviews showed up and it's
21:10.20 Stan Lemon Hehe.
21:32.79 Jon It's a new game, Stan. Nice.
21:35.12 Stan Lemon It's definitely a new game. All right, just just to clarify here. So my custom instructions, last two lines are, um actually, let me give you the last three lines because i think this is interesting. Always aim for the quickest path to a good decision.
21:47.11 Stan Lemon When doing research, provide citations. Favor retail sites like Amazon, Ikea, Wayfair, and Target for physical goods. Favor the Apple App Store for software.
21:57.93 Stan Lemon There you go So... um And you can kind of see how that that probably shaped this response, or at least i'd like to think it did. this Okay, so this just reminded me. I was thinking about, i for what this is worth, I don't think the shopping experience is quite yet ah good enough on the AI front.
22:16.78 Stan Lemon So I've done a couple of things that think is interesting, right?
22:17.31 Jon Correct.
22:18.86 Stan Lemon Like where I'll say, hey, um the one that... ChatGPT still has not been able to solve for me. as I'm like, I want a tray to elevate the tissue box on my bathroom sink counter.
22:32.17 Stan Lemon Right? I just want to give it a little bit of height.
22:32.78 Jon Yeah. We talked about this, what, four episodes ago where I was trying to understand your problem statement.
22:34.51 Stan Lemon Yeah. Probably. And it's still... It still doesn't still doesn't get it, right?
22:38.98 Jon So...
22:41.42 Stan Lemon um So not great, not ideal. Here's another one that I've been struggling with recently too. I described a pair of shoes that I really like, the Hoka Bondi 9s.
22:52.53 Stan Lemon And I described what I liked about them very specifically. And I said, go find me shoes that I would like to wear that feel like this going into Michelin star restaurant.
23:06.01 Stan Lemon Okay, going back to a couple weekends ago. I have purchased three pairs that it has recommended and I have returned all three of them. um The delta between the Bondi 9 feel and what I've ordered has been huge.
23:21.36 Stan Lemon Huge. So i now it's possible that what I'm looking for doesn't exist. All right? Like maybe business casual shoes are not comfortable.
23:26.77 Jon That is possible. The other thing to realize is that the robots have never worn shoes.
23:34.80 Stan Lemon Okay, but shouldn't they be looking at the analysis of material, the features of the shoes, and and also like reviews?
23:44.33 Jon I mean, maybe, but you have historically have had shoe problems.
23:49.17 Stan Lemon Yes, I know I've historically had shoe problems. I'm in a good spot on the shoe front right now. But the the kicker here is i I do believe, like in another life, I'm going to just review shoes for people and I'm going blog about it. That's what I'm going to do, John. That's my, that's in retirement, I'm going to review shoes. I'm going to get people to send me shoes to review because I have very strong opinions about the toe box. I have strong opinions about the arch support. I have strong opinions about the squish that I expect or lack thereof in the heel.
24:21.04 Stan Lemon Right. Also, I'll tell you right now, I run in a pair of Brooks shoes. They're great for running. They sell their shoes with the worst possible shoelaces. Right.
24:34.08 Stan Lemon right? therere They're freaking running shoes and the laces are too short to do a runner's loop and double knot, okay? now Now, I'm sorry, but i I think if you are making running shoes, the runner's loop is an expectation, right? Like it's not an optional thing. You put freaking holes in the side of your shoes to make the runner's loop possible.
24:57.47 Stan Lemon And then i don't I don't know anybody who runs who doesn't double knot, right, so like, what is Brooks doing?
25:06.37 Jon I mean, they're trying to make more money off of you because now you have to buy shoelaces too.
25:10.66 Stan Lemon But I didn't buy shoelaces from them because they didn't offer me shoelaces that were longer. And and here's, his actually bought three sets of shoelaces. By the way, those are those are ridiculous to return, okay?
25:21.86 Stan Lemon But but what i what I did, the the problem this is the other problem with the Brooks is the eye holes for the shoelaces are smaller than any other pair of shoes i have, right?
25:32.97 Jon Hmm.
25:33.03 Stan Lemon Right. So I had to find not only a lace that was long enough to do runner's loops and double knot, but also narrow enough. And like, I'm telling you, man, this was exceptionally difficult. And just to be clear, I ran all of this through ChatGPT2 and it did not give me a good recommendation, which is why I bought three of them.
25:52.41 Stan Lemon Right? So I think the shopping thing is not solved. i had I had another experience yesterday where I was convinced again that the shopping experience is not solved. And I think it's not solved. It's not just like online retail.
26:07.02 Stan Lemon In-store retail, it is not solved. Okay?
26:10.29 Jon Cam.
26:10.43 Stan Lemon So I wanted a bottle of the Robert Mondavi Cabernet Sauvignon that I had, or Red Blend, sorry, it's Red Blend, not a Cabernet Sauvignon, Red Blend that I had on my cruise ship, right? Apparently Total Wine carries it.
26:24.67 Stan Lemon They do not carry it at the store closest to me. And so, or at least they did, and then it sold out and I didn't know there was a Delta in terms of like when I found it and then when I showed up. But I get into the store and I'm trying to ask ChatGPT in Total Wine, where would this thing be physically on the shelf, right?
26:45.54 Stan Lemon And it can't help me navigate the retail store. It can't help me navigate the hordes of bottles that are everywhere. And I think that's another piece too. Like I want to be able to to take a picture of the shelf and say, find me a bottle here that matches what I normally like.
27:04.48 Stan Lemon and We're just, we're just not there.
27:06.85 Jon And again, I think part of that is lack of context.
27:11.04 Stan Lemon Yeah, no, that's fair. um But, i am you know,
27:14.53 Jon But like when Total Wine builds that out and then Total Wine knows all of its inventory all over the place and you've started reading different bottles and things like that, then um like you've got this AI assistant within the app that I think takes that context into account.
27:32.26 Stan Lemon That's fair. There's, there's another thing that I think, um, at least the chat agents are not doing yet in a way that is helpful that I think they could be doing, which is multi-turn internal prompting.
27:45.95 Stan Lemon I mean, maybe maybe, maybe they're doing this and we just don't see it, but like, uh, I've been, you know, i'm I'm building the exercise app. I got an AI generation thing. Apple's foundation models are really abysmal. And, and so you can't,
27:56.29 Jon Doesn't surprise anyone.
27:57.54 Stan Lemon Yeah, you can't one shot a request, right? Like I'm basically like, hey, you know, create a 10 minute HIIT workout, right? And um in order for me to support, create 10 minute HIIT workout and create a upper body circuit workout, right? Circuits being being a different structure.
28:15.27 Stan Lemon I have to do multiple turns with AI to assess like, is this a circuit? Is it not? Right.
28:21.92 Jon Hmm.
28:22.01 Stan Lemon know, I've got another round that just does estimation. So if you say 15 minutes versus, you know, just upper body strength, like, and I think some of that multi-turn stuff in chat, um if it's happening, it's not, it's opaque because, you know, like you can see the thinking steps, but Um, and sometimes it does like, sometimes it does what I'm describing, but there's other pieces where it's blowing up your, your context and it needs to throw, throw stuff away more. Right. Um, yeah. So i don't know. I'm digressing a little bit here, but I, I do think the shopping experience has a lot of potential and is mostly unsolved at this point.
29:04.92 Jon I could see that.
29:06.44 Stan Lemon the The ads that ChatGPT are going to start doing, I think are going to make this worse before it makes it better.
29:11.55 Jon Oh, absolutely.
29:14.15 Stan Lemon You haven't seen one of these ads yet, have you?
29:15.88 Jon I have not, and that could be a good reason why I switched over to Claude.
29:21.38 Stan Lemon Well, you're you're a pro subscriber, aren't you?
29:24.20 Jon I am.
29:24.93 Stan Lemon Okay, so my understanding is that we won't get it. i'm I've been trying to ask people I know who are too cheap to pay for pro, like Henry, right, my son. um He won't be won't pony up.
29:38.15 Stan Lemon ah Just to tell me,
29:39.20 Jon We just value you know privacy a little more. And right now, means we trust OpenAI.
29:43.39 Stan Lemon it's...
29:46.24 Stan Lemon yeah Yeah, right, we trust them to... Yeah. It's... I want to see how they actually pull it off because i i I think there's probably a tactful way to do it, to be honest with you.
29:59.62 Stan Lemon um We'll see.
30:02.91 Jon don't know is there stan because like even if you go look at amazon listings now like you search for something on amazon you gotta to like sort through all these stupid sponsored ones or um however they flag different things
30:18.34 Stan Lemon Okay, hold up though. So when you search for something on Google, you have a sponsored ad and use it at the top too, right?
30:24.61 Jon correct well now it's usually like an ai thing and then sponsored ads and then the actual yeah
30:25.41 Stan Lemon Okay.
30:27.94 Stan Lemon AI and then sponsored. in How many sponsored results do you have on a Google search?
30:34.12 Jon I haven't looked recently, Stan. When was the last time you used Google?
30:38.12 Stan Lemon I use Google every day, Jonathan.
30:40.93 Jon What should i search for?
30:41.09 Stan Lemon i think I think you'll find, why don't you search for exercise bands? what are the best exercise bands? This is a search, I'm trying to pollute John's algorithm right now.
30:54.85 Jon All right. So at the top, I have sponsored products run by a Google Merchant Center.
31:00.45 Stan Lemon Okay, and then do you have a sponsored search result?
31:00.61 Jon And there's lots them. Then I have sponsored results. There's three of them.
31:06.24 Stan Lemon Three of them, okay. Now, if we go into Amazon and we do the same query, I i think you'll get more than three sponsored results.
31:16.72 Stan Lemon what do you think, John?
31:18.32 Jon So we've got big sponsored results. that one's sponsored. Yep. So one, two, three, four, five. So first the first call out and then the first row of results are all sponsored.
31:34.96 Stan Lemon Okay, and if you scroll past some of the non-sponsored ones, I think you'll find more sponsored results.
31:41.31 Stan Lemon Maybe, maybe not.
31:44.88 Jon There's, OK, there we go, under more results. guess I haven't looked at Amazon on my desktop in a while either.
31:51.42 Stan Lemon So, you know, you get a more little more linear experience with the but the mobile, but i I think that what Amazon has done is they've they've just given too many slots to sponsorship.
32:04.76 Stan Lemon So I don't have a problem with Google saying, here's the sponsor result, right? but they limit themselves. At least that's been my my perception of it. And the other thing is, it's been a i have not seen Google throwing sponsored results in the middle of non-sponsored results. So sponsored always at the top, then you got a bunch of stuff. Amazon will sneak them in all over the place.
32:27.90 Stan Lemon And you got to look because I also think that the prominence of the sponsored label on Google is a little more clear than Amazon. All right.
32:36.83 Jon Could be.
32:37.80 Stan Lemon So now let's talk about ChatGPT. Could they do it Google style or could they do it Amazon style? I don't, you know, everything is possible. The question is, which route will they take?
32:51.64 Jon That is a good question. I'm still kind of annoyed at Google where you don't get the actual organic listings until halfway down the page.
33:00.56 Stan Lemon Well, that's only gotten worse with the AI results, right?
33:02.93 Jon Right. And then they so even so, they now they'll throw in like video or places. and like kind of reminds me of early internet days. like You remember the Yahoo homepage? That was just a mess. like We're getting back to that. and so
33:17.78 Stan Lemon Well, yeah. Okay. It wasn't a mess originally, John. It was just a list of folders and you could click into links. Granted, you were you were probably still in diapers for that part. um But yeah.
33:29.93 Stan Lemon No, i this is the thing, right? So i do believe that ads can be done reasonably well. I am not sure that OpenAI has the muscle for it. We will see.
33:44.46 Jon I think I want, and like they're doing this in some places, but I think I want more control over what types of ads I see and that I want them to be helpful.
34:00.10 Stan Lemon um Okay. Do you know of any platform right now that is giving you helpful ads?
34:07.43 Jon ah Um...
34:09.95 Stan Lemon Yeah, exactly.
34:10.40 Jon Probably not. i think I think that there is some like there's something to Instagram ads that at least are interesting to me where I will often click on them.
34:11.55 Stan Lemon Yeah.
34:24.37 Stan Lemon they're they're relevant, right? And ah not necessarily helpful, but relevant.
34:25.86 Jon Yeah.
34:28.13 Stan Lemon I actually think, I think you're spot on, right? And this is maybe Instagram secret sauce. Now, um I don't need, no, no, fake Facebook.
34:34.54 Jon Although on Facebook, I don't think that's the case. So I don't know what the deal is there because it's a trivia.
34:38.05 Stan Lemon facebook
34:40.80 Jon It runs through the same advertising platform.
34:40.83 Stan Lemon Dude, I, oh are they the same the advertising platform?
34:42.84 Jon so
34:45.100 Stan Lemon Because I feel like,
34:46.37 Jon I think it all runs through meta business.
34:49.07 Stan Lemon Oh, that's insane. There's got to be something different about the, um, there has to be something different about the way they pick ads.
34:56.34 Jon Algorithms.
34:59.09 Stan Lemon Like there just has to be.
35:00.10 Jon Right.
35:00.61 Stan Lemon So, um,
35:03.38 Stan Lemon i I think the Instagram ones are at least a little spot on, at least identifying my persona and my interests.
35:10.02 Jon Mm-hmm.
35:10.19 Stan Lemon um But it's a big delta between that and being helpful, right? And I've ordered a few things.
35:13.90 Jon Sure.
35:16.07 Stan Lemon I think i've told you, I've ordered a few things on Instagram. i've ordered I've ordered more things from Instagram ads in the last two years than I have in the last 20 from Facebook.
35:26.62 Jon Same. I mean, mine is still under five, but...
35:27.60 Stan Lemon Okay. Still under five. I think I'm past five. So I think I've told you, did tell you about the pillow debacle?
35:39.25 Jon I don't think so.
35:40.43 Stan Lemon Oh, this this thing was awful. So like, you know, I have, I've got a lot of issues with pillows as I as i do shoes.
35:46.77 Jon Like shoes.
35:47.86 Stan Lemon Yeah, yeah, yeah.
35:47.86 Jon And food. And AI.
35:49.39 Stan Lemon a I mean, but I ordered, there was a pillow and it looked like I was convinced by the ad.
35:51.31 Jon shit
35:58.64 Stan Lemon So I purchased it online and 30 days later, I had not gotten it. Right?
36:05.87 Jon Not a great experience.
36:06.02 Stan Lemon And not a great experience. So I emailed and I was like hey, i' this ne what's going on? I get a tracking code. Like 30 days more goes by and the tracking code, nothing's been shipped. Right? So I decide, OK, like 60 days, I'm done.
36:19.37 Stan Lemon You know, this is this is like ah too far. So I go into my Apple card and dispute the transaction. And the next day i get a notification that my package is shipped. Right?
36:30.64 Stan Lemon um And so at this point, I can see the the tracking status. It shows up a day later. i open it up. It is the most janky packaging i have ever seen in my life. The return address goes to someone's apartment in Chicago, right?
36:47.86 Stan Lemon And the pillow just smells like gasoline, right? So like that really strong polyethylene.
36:54.48 Jon Wonderful. Not exactly what you're looking for.
36:57.10 Stan Lemon No, not at all, right?
36:57.49 Jon Really anywhere, but specifically not in the garage.
36:59.32 Stan Lemon Fortunately, I didn't have to pay for it. didn't to pay for it, but like it was so potent that I i left it exactly i left in the garage.
37:01.75 Jon Yep.
37:05.39 Stan Lemon And I wasn't even comfortable taking that to Salvation Army. I just had to throw it out, right?
37:09.55 Jon Yep.
37:10.16 Stan Lemon ah So that was that was not a good that not good experience. But then I had the...
37:13.10 Jon Ah.
37:15.41 Stan Lemon The pantalones that I got Mrs. Lemon with, it's like bib overalls with pockets. um She loves those, right? I got a coffee mug. That was pretty good. I ordered a Christmas ornament for my Pilates instructor, which which was one of the most ridiculous things I've ever ordered because I thought it was an actual ornament. And it turns out that it was an AI generated image printed on a piece of plastic.
37:40.78 Stan Lemon Um, and, it had her name, right. But, um, which is part of the customization, you know, ordering, uh, but it like, I don't know, the it had a Pilates reformer on it and the one that arrived did not look like a Pilates reformer. So, you know, that wasn't great, but it also wasn't, wasn't a huge expense.
38:00.91 Stan Lemon Um, I've been very tempted. i get, I get Lord of the Rings stuff all the time.
38:06.20 Jon All the time.
38:07.02 Stan Lemon all the time, right? um I've been so close to buying the Easton Press printings. Like I get those, I see those at least twice a day. and i And I have for the last nine months, right? um But then I also have...
38:20.78 Jon Have you seen the knives that have like different scenes on the knife blade?
38:28.08 Stan Lemon no i wonder if I will after this podcast episode. Um, I do, I do get ads for a knife that has like a magnet, um, is like a crazy sharpening solution.
38:40.78 Stan Lemon Um, I get, you know I'm talking about?
38:41.26 Jon Oh, yeah, yeah.
38:43.10 Stan Lemon Like this little circular one.
38:43.87 Jon I do.
38:44.02 Stan Lemon See, cause you, you and I were connected. We got, that we got a blend and Instagram blend. I think you're only person that looks at the Instagram blend. I don't, um,
38:50.26 Jon So you know what happens is you send me like four of these things, and then I just try to scroll to get to the next one, and then it takes me to the blend instead of to the next thing that you sent me.
38:59.93 Stan Lemon Oh, yeah.
39:00.02 Jon So, like, I don't go out seeking the blend.
39:00.94 Stan Lemon I definitely...
39:02.45 Jon It just happens. so
39:03.92 Stan Lemon just happens. um you see You don't send me a lot of stuff on Instagram. I send you a ton of stuff.
39:09.65 Jon You do.
39:09.84 Stan Lemon i to To be honest with you, I don't usually get more than like three or four swipes down my Instagram feed. like it's it's just all It's all that like you know on point. The other thing that I get a ton of is all the GLP-1 ads.
39:26.58 Jon Oh, we should talk about this, Stan.
39:27.10 Stan Lemon Right?
39:28.02 Jon Where are your thoughts on the GLP-1 stuff?
39:30.67 Stan Lemon Well, I'm not a doctor, Jonathan, so I'm not going to sit here and give advice about GLP-1s. um
39:35.44 Jon But you have opinions on everything.
39:37.23 Stan Lemon I do have opinions everything. Here's here's what I'll say. um It seems like there has been a ton of like legitimate medical science done around those drugs and that there are ah legitimate needs and use cases.
39:51.22 Stan Lemon I think that the ads I'm getting on Instagram right now are all about how to acquire these drugs without going through insurance, and that seems highly sketched.
40:02.09 Jon Yeah.
40:02.35 Stan Lemon Right. ah and And so, you know, i'm I'm not totally sure that you should be using Instagram ads to make medical choices. um You've actually heard me rant about this, I think, in other you know venues. But ay so so what I'll say is, like, I'm not convinced that it is bad or evil.
40:24.02 Stan Lemon um And I'm not going to vilify it like I would Red Die 40. Right. No, I'm just kidding. not going to vilify Red Die 40.
40:31.48 Jon Yep. Yep.
40:33.04 Stan Lemon at least not not publicly. Anyhow, um but i'm I'm just, I'm not not really sure that the way people are acquiring, my my ah also understanding is that like for it to actually be useful, it's a long-term gain. And I think, you know, most Americans are short-term thinkers at best, right? um But I think from what I understand, because I listened to a couple of, you know, yeah I've got that nutritionist, right? That I like, I've listened to him interview some people about GLP-1s.
41:00.82 Stan Lemon It sounds like,
41:00.88 Jon This is probably why you get those ads and I've not seen one on Instagram.
41:03.63 Stan Lemon That could be.
41:03.92 Jon so
41:04.15 Stan Lemon That very well could be. but Explain to me why I'm getting, what is it, Tim Horton? Not Tim Horton. Is that the guy? Who's the P90 Beachbody?
41:10.23 Jon It's important me is coffee, right?
41:12.88 Stan Lemon ah no, no, no. What's the... Tom Horton? Mike Horton? Yeah, Tim Hortons is the coffee. Who's the... Oh, my gosh. Horton...
41:21.82 Jon Here's a who.
41:21.97 Stan Lemon I think he does P90, right? Yeah, P90.
41:24.14 Jon I have no idea.
41:24.95 Stan Lemon Tony Horton, not Tim Horton. Tony Horton.
41:26.34 Jon OK.
41:27.07 Stan Lemon You got explain to you why. Tony Horton is in my Instagram all the time. And I've actually done the suggest less quite a bit. I don't know what's going on there. So, yeah.
41:39.66 Stan Lemon But the...
41:39.86 Jon Another one that I don't get, Stan.
41:43.30 Stan Lemon it's I don't know, man. And there's there's another guy too who is like Tony Horton who's making his own supplements that are they're they're just they're just a bit bit much. So, All right.
41:55.89 Stan Lemon um Let me zoom up. GLP ones. I think, you know, They're addressing a chemical issue with the way people think about food. That's probably valuable to a lot of people. Definitely seems like a long-term commitment and a discussion have with your doctor. And you should not use an Instagram ad to decide to do that. I personally am scared to death of them because every time I i look at the complications, it's mostly like you're going to be incontinent. All And I'm sure that that doesn't actually happen because complications are are like exceptional. They're rare, but
42:30.13 Stan Lemon I just know I'm going to fall in. like you know Anytime you see those those ads for medications on the television, they're like, you know may cause gangrene or your toes will fall off.
42:38.31 Jon That would happen.
42:39.13 Stan Lemon like ah I'm that guy. that I'm the one who gets all of the side effects without fail. right so you know Wow.
42:47.15 Jon Yeah.
42:48.94 Stan Lemon Can you imagine?
42:49.63 Jon Okay.
42:49.74 Stan Lemon it was
42:49.87 Jon That was a tangent I wasn't expecting to take, but since the opportunity presented itself, you were talking about the ads for it.
42:52.40 Stan Lemon how did yeah How did we get on GLP-1s in the middle of our podcast? This is the...
42:57.45 Jon and like I just listened. must have been in an episode of My First Million or something like that, and they went all in about GLP ones and how there's a bunch of people that
43:05.26 Stan Lemon Oh yeah. You sent me that, you sent me that episode. Um, what was the guy's name?
43:08.53 Jon Okay.
43:09.74 Stan Lemon Um, yeah.
43:10.03 Jon I don't remember.
43:12.41 Stan Lemon Uh, no, he but he's, he, he also, and this is going to kill me now with, with the name of that, um, that guy is, i thought it was a terrible podcast episode, but you know, your mileage may vary. The, um,
43:23.31 Jon There are some good ones. There are some not so good ones. They have interviewed Darmesh several times since it's a HubSpot podcast.
43:30.93 Stan Lemon Okay. I could, I mean, I could see that being a good interview. So, man, I cannot find the link to this. um But he actually mentions about the extent to which legitimate medical science has studied the effects of GLP-1s.
43:45.78 Stan Lemon And i think I think, you know, you've you've heard me in other um contexts talk about how much I value legitimate science.
43:55.18 Jon Was it Scott Galloway?
43:57.02 Stan Lemon Scott Galloway, yeah, yeah, yeah. Man, he sounds like a weirdo. Um, he just such a strange character.
44:00.75 Jon Yes, he does.
44:05.23 Stan Lemon Um, I don't know. and And he's, he teaches now. So like the whole, that whole podcast, we should dig up a link to that. Maybe you can edit the pull request after I open it, um, and include a link to it because it was, it was just a little, little different. You're by the way, your podcast listening, very different than my own.
44:24.98 Stan Lemon Very, very different than my own.
44:26.42 Jon Well, not that different, considering listened a bunch that were recommended by you. Planet Money had a great one on this whole tariff ruling.
44:30.54 Stan Lemon So,
44:36.09 Stan Lemon oh yeah, I haven't, I haven't listened to Planet Money in a while.
44:37.47 Jon yeah
44:40.16 Stan Lemon um
44:41.52 Jon They're putting out a book. They're going on book tours, Stan.
44:44.38 Stan Lemon Planet Money is?
44:45.79 Jon Yeah.
44:48.64 Stan Lemon um What was the, Jacob Goldstein, right? Jacob Goldstein used be on Planet Money and released and a book, I think. i don't think I'm misremembering that. um what's So what is the book supposed to be about?
45:03.58 Jon um It's like the whatever started the whole podcast. um ah They haven't talked about it recently. I just know they're going on a book tour.
45:14.12 Jon They also partnered with Exploding Kittens to to create an economic system.
45:18.36 Stan Lemon There's a whole website, planetmoneybook.com, a guide to the economic forces that shape your life. I bet this would be good. yeah So you heard me talk about The Undercover Economist. I love those books.
45:30.16 Stan Lemon I think those are those are great. If this is along those same lines, I would be i'd be stoked. So, okay. I'm going to be honest with I used to listen to Planet Money and The Indicator all the time, but I stopped because I got so sick and tired of hearing about our president and tariffs.
45:46.82 Stan Lemon And I can only imagine i can only imagine that it has not gotten better since I discontinued listening probably probably nine months ago, if I'm being honest with you. um And so, yeah, that's that's that's why I've stopped. maybe i'll Maybe I'll resume at some point, but I'm i'm so just over it.
46:03.76 Stan Lemon um
46:04.97 Jon the other one I listened to that you recommended is 99pi which is generally a great podcast occasionally there's episodes that are kind of miss really
46:05.32 Stan Lemon i
46:12.00 Stan Lemon I haven't listened to that one in years. Yeah. I don't know. i don't even know why I stopped. I don't remember what the reason was because I bought the book. I love the book. There are some episodes of that podcast that are just so fantastic. um But yeah, I don't listen to anymore.
46:30.76 Stan Lemon So what else do listen to, John?
46:31.14 Jon So what else do you listen some to, Stan?
46:33.05 Stan Lemon All right.
46:33.82 Jon I've been listening to Decoder recently, um also because of you.
46:33.87 Stan Lemon Okay.
46:37.93 Stan Lemon Decoder is one that I listen to quite a bit. I listen to the nutrition science podcast with Dr. Adrian Chavez.
46:45.86 Jon And now we're going listen to that one, Stan.
46:46.16 Stan Lemon um Oh, you should have. So good. So good. So good. um There's a, I listened to our friend, Aaron Fanker, pastor Aaron Fanker.
46:56.86 Stan Lemon I listen to his sermons every week. That's a podcast version history, which is from the verge. I've sent you a couple of We've talked about them on our podcast.
47:03.99 Jon It's Virgin History on Hiatus. I haven't seen one of those hit my feed recently.
47:06.66 Stan Lemon They do seasons, right? So they drop seasons where they'll a set and then they'll go through it Another one that does that is they have been good.
47:08.01 Jon Okay.
47:10.66 Jon Yeah, but those have all been good that I've listened to. I've got some further back that I have to go listen to.
47:13.82 Stan Lemon They have been good. Yeah. I would say higher production value in terms of the prep that goes into it.
47:18.24 Jon Sure.
47:18.90 Stan Lemon Another one that I really like called Land of the Giants. i think I think I sent you the Disney Dilemma for the last season they did. So I've done a few of those. Yeah.
47:28.66 Jon Okay.
47:29.54 Stan Lemon that's ah ah That's a just solid podcast. And then I love Dan Carlin's Hardcore History. Those are long form episodes. They don't come out very often, but there'll be three, four hours an episode. And I just, I think they're fantastic. Absolutely fantastic.
47:43.97 Stan Lemon So that's really what I listen to right now. not Not a ton.
47:47.18 Jon You know what I've started listening to that I have not listened to in the past, like through an actual podcast app?
47:52.94 Stan Lemon What?
47:53.74 Jon Life with a Twist of Lemon.
47:55.37 Stan Lemon Oh, you all right.
47:56.43 Jon It's because I don't have that second time where I listen through it anymore. So it's like, what did I talk about? What stupid things did I say?
48:02.05 Stan Lemon Well, I don't listen to it. I don't listen to it second time through either. and then here's So I don't subscribe to this through my podcast app, but I do. It's like the one of the few things I subscribe to on YouTube, which is the Jonathan Frakes and Brent Spiner podcast, which is called Dropping Names and Other Things.
48:14.44 Jon Which I need to check out.
48:17.57 Stan Lemon I would love to know what you think about this because I actually suspect that the format is, like if we had friends who were famous and we brought them on, I think that's what we would do.
48:30.44 Jon Do we have any friends who are famous? Okay.
48:32.32 Stan Lemon No. Danchez, he's famous, right? In like one corner of Iowa.
48:36.68 Jon Right.
48:37.36 Stan Lemon Yeah. Okay. So Danchez. Yeah. ah But it's it's it's very quirky. Those two are clearly like longtime friends, more friendly than I realized.
48:48.66 Stan Lemon ah It's not, I don't know, it's weird. Brent Spiner, an odd character. He's a very odd character.
48:53.98 Jon Right. It's like, I don't think that I ever would have, um, thought that they would be friends because I feel like I would really like Jonathan Frakes and I think that he would be hilarious. um But Brent Spiner is just weird.
49:08.11 Stan Lemon He is just weird. But um they they get along. Their first episode with LeVar Burton. And I didn't realize how close that cast was.
49:13.30 Jon Nice.
49:18.74 Stan Lemon um you know You do 24 episodes for seven seasons and then you do four movies together. I'm sure you get close. But like I feel like we hear so often of...
49:29.51 Stan Lemon these shows where everybody's like at each other's throat, right? Like I think about Yellowstone, you know, and, and all of the rumors and stuff going on about that cast, um, that I kind of take, took that for granted, but they have a very deep relationship and they play off each other.
49:33.06 Jon For her.
49:47.34 Stan Lemon They understand each other and they're just having fun. The, um, the, uh, Jonathan Frakes, I enjoy listening to him talk pretty much all the time.
49:57.03 Jon okay
49:57.06 Stan Lemon And his, um, his stories are great. He, his voice reminds me of, uh, my uncle Ted, may his memory be eternal. They sound exactly alike. Like I, the, the mannerisms even are pretty on point, um, which always gets me. So that was my dad's oldest brother, but, um,
50:15.24 Stan Lemon No, it's i you should watch it. I would love to know what you think about it We could talk about it here. They're not releasing them very often. They have quite a high production value. They have like a studio setup for this thing.
50:25.54 Stan Lemon And um they've got like these custom bookshelves.
50:25.66 Jon Sure.
50:28.57 Stan Lemon that I mean, like you should you should check it out because it's it's a little much it's a little more than I would have anticipated for... That type of ah of a show, you know? But um yeah. And they Jonathan Frakes has this little bell um that sits next to his chair. And every time they they drop a name, heings it he it. And he's mostly on point. But they are constantly making connections and stories to other people in Hollywood and folks that they worked with. And it turns out like Brent Spiner, I didn't even realize how much stuff he's been in besides Star Trek.
51:01.26 Stan Lemon uh and how many other famous actors that he has met and interacted with levar burton too it's it's almost insane like i i genuinely think of him as star trek and reading rainbow and that's it but it turns out that that's like just the the tip of the iceberg so um he was in roots i don't know why i don't even think about roots but like that that's like his that's his thing that's his claim to fame that's the the the big thing that um put him on the map so all i care about is star trek
51:27.68 Jon Right. But not a Starfleet Academy.
51:30.98 Stan Lemon I have not watched it. I don't even have a Paramount Plus subscription right now, Jonathan.
51:35.28 Jon I have watched... I have not watched all of them. I think I'm about too behind. I don't recommend it, Stan.
51:43.76 Stan Lemon Fascinating. Now you never watched Discovery, right?
51:46.05 Jon I never watched Discovery.
51:47.91 Stan Lemon I don't know how much of Discovery is required for watching. I've never seen the last season of Discovery. i just I just disliked Discovery that much that couldn't do it. i've I've been intrigued because Robert Picardo appears in um this.
52:04.41 Stan Lemon that's That's the Doctor, right, from Voyager.
52:05.91 Jon Yep.
52:07.26 Stan Lemon And I've been told that the young Jake Sisko appears. not He's not young anymore.
52:12.80 Jon In one episode. Right.
52:14.05 Stan Lemon Yeah.
52:14.61 Jon It's in the older Jakes' show.
52:14.82 Stan Lemon But I've heard that I've heard there's a whole bunch of canon issues ah with his appearance.
52:16.32 Jon Yeah.
52:20.01 Stan Lemon And so I'm i'm like marginally intrigued, but
52:23.30 Jon I think you could probably watch that episode in a void and get away with it.
52:29.09 Stan Lemon maybe here's, here's, here's my problem. i'm Like I dis, I disliked discovery so much that that is the reason why I haven't started Academy. I don't, I don't know hardly anything about Academy.
52:37.90 Jon So it's even worse though, because it's like Discovery New Trek ah meets teenage drama.
52:50.37 Stan Lemon Yeah. And that doesn't resonate well for me right now because I have my own, have, I like, I live with that, you know?
52:52.45 Jon right but Lucy might love it, but it's like Dawson's Creek meets Starfleet Academy.
52:56.86 Stan Lemon Oh, good Lord. Good Lord.
53:02.82 Stan Lemon Nope. I'm out. I'm done. I'm done. I'm done.
53:05.65 Jon I never watched Dawson's Creek, so that could be an unfair assessment.
53:05.68 Stan Lemon Um, i didn't I didn't either.
53:08.01 Jon but
53:08.26 Stan Lemon i didn't either. But I knew the people that did, right? And I didn't like any of them. No offense. I'm sure you're all fantastic humans now, but I didn't like you at the time. Yeah. ah ah You know what I have been watching? I'm a little late to the party on this one. I've been watching Downton Abbey.
53:22.70 Jon Yes, you're very late to the party on this one. Like their last movie came out, didn't it?
53:27.43 Stan Lemon I think so. Yeah. And I, so I think we're in season three right now. um The story with this is ah probably, probably seven years ago. My wife started watching the show and I watched the first episode with her and I hated it. I thought, that i thought the pilot was absolutely terrible.
53:46.44 Stan Lemon And I stand by, i stand by the assessment, right? Like I, I saw parts of the pilot again, still thought it was terrible, but the problem is the pilot is so misleading for the rest of the show. The dialogue is so fantastic.
53:59.28 Stan Lemon And, um, what's her name?
53:59.49 Jon Mm.
54:01.46 Stan Lemon Uh, Dame Maggie. Um, Oh, John.
54:06.04 Jon McGonagall.
54:07.47 Stan Lemon McGonagall. What is, what is her name? I should know this. Uh, I'm looking up. I'm looking up. i'm looking up, uh, Dame. It's Maggie, right?
54:16.18 Jon Smith. Maggie Smith.
54:17.33 Stan Lemon Maggie Smith. Yeah. She has some of the best lines in this show. She has got a wit and like just a flavor of sarcasm to her that I, I love.
54:28.90 Stan Lemon Um, I really enjoy Charles Carson. I think his character is is one of my favorites in the and the whole show. um
54:38.57 Jon that will continue through almost everything agreed
54:41.68 Stan Lemon i believe that. I believe that. he's just He's just such a delightful human. Here's my hot take for you. I can't stand Mrs. Patmore.
54:50.96 Stan Lemon Oh, she is so irritating to me. Um, and, uh, yeah, I don't know. so so I'm in, you know, season three, um, some terrible thing.
54:59.72 Jon how many deaths have there been so far how many deaths have happened so far
55:01.78 Stan Lemon What's there? Oh, so many, but, but one of, one of the core characters just passed away in season three. Um, and so, uh, I'm, I'm gonna be honest. I'm like, I'm not happy with the current state of, of the storyline, but again, the the dialogue is so good. Um, Isabel Crawley. So that is, um, uh, oh my gosh, what's his name?
55:27.56 Stan Lemon The, um,
55:30.70 Stan Lemon The one, the one, I can't believe I'm doing this. It's, it's not, it's Mary's husband. What's Mary's husband's name, Jonathan? Matthew, Matthew Crawley.
55:40.70 Jon um okay
55:41.72 Stan Lemon So good Lord. All right. So his mom was the most annoying character to me, especially during world war one. And now I absolutely adore her.
55:53.18 Jon nice oh it's a roller coaster stan but it's good overall
55:53.20 Stan Lemon So I don't, I don't even know where this is going, but I, I really like her. so
55:59.66 Stan Lemon Yeah. um So that's that's that's what I've been watching and a little late to the party. But if i I just keep thinking to myself, like if we could come up with whatever the Star Trek equivalent is of Downton Abbey, like that's what they should have done for Starfleet Academy, right?
56:13.44 Stan Lemon They should have a Downton Abbey spin, not set in the Discovery timeline, but go back, go take me to between, in the in-between years, between Captain Archer and Captain Kirk and set me in San Francisco at that Starfleet Academy.
56:13.87 Jon Right.
56:29.11 Stan Lemon right?
56:29.46 Jon There you go.
56:29.70 Stan Lemon Downton Abbey style. That's what I want.
56:34.20 Jon Maybe we should start working on it, Stan.
56:36.15 Stan Lemon Yeah, we'll we'll write some fan fiction, sell it to Paramount, and we can quit our day jobs. so Well, Jonathan, i i didn't know what we were going to talk about, but in true fashion, we ended up exactly where I knew we would.
56:47.45 Jon Right. Yep.
56:50.09 Stan Lemon So, hey, I i know it's a little early in the day, but I opened up a bottle of white Bordeaux, which we tried with the Wall Street Journal advent calendar. And it made an appearance again for me on the cruise ship. um And I'm just going to say that I think there is something special about white wine from Bordeaux that um we need to explore together.
57:15.28 Jon Okay, I don't remember loving the one we had in the advent calendar.
57:18.93 Stan Lemon We didn't, we didn't. Um, and I would not have thought to buy a white Bordeaux had it not been for a different white Bordeaux on the cruise where I was like Oh, there's a lot going on.
57:20.30 Jon Okay.
57:29.01 Stan Lemon This is not, um, it was not like the little, the little wall street journal one. So there you go.
57:35.32 Jon Love it. Alright, well, it's been far too long since we drank wine together again, Stan, so we should remedy that.
57:36.28 Stan Lemon yeah
57:41.78 Stan Lemon You want to, you want to meet me in McHenry in about six weeks?
57:45.87 Jon We'll see.
57:46.70 Stan Lemon All right. Okay, Jonathan, I think that's a good place as I need end it. Until next time, my friend.
57:51.86 Jon All right, later.