00:56.50 Stan Lemon Did you get the picture?
00:56.58 Jon Stanley, I got the picture.
00:59.00 Stan Lemon Okay.
00:59.26 Jon We're starting late because of this hobby of yours. and And I just find myself as co-host on all these podcasts where the other co-host doesn't show up on time.
01:06.94 Stan Lemon is Hold up.
01:07.42 Jon um
01:07.70 Stan Lemon is it Is it a hobby or is it a New Year's resolution?
01:10.71 Jon um Both.
01:12.82 Stan Lemon Okay. And they they don't have to be mutually exclusive. All right.
01:15.93 Jon Correct. So you sent me a picture of two loaves of bread, which look lighter than I would expect from your normal sourdough recipe. So what kind of bread do you have going on here?
01:26.36 Stan Lemon when When you say lighter, you just mean the color on the exterior?
01:29.69 Jon Yes. Oh.
01:31.03 Stan Lemon Yeah. um So this one baked at 425 for 30 minutes. And I think that's why it is the color that it is. i think I need a little more heat or or even convection going on to get a darker shell. And the sourdough that you've had that I've made before, definitely, well, I did i did a couple of things differently. One, hotter temp, and I used a La Clache.
01:56.22 Stan Lemon right? The little like dome thing. Other people use a Dutch oven or an upside down Dutch oven.
02:00.19 Jon Sure.
02:01.18 Stan Lemon Yeah. So that'll, that'll help with that crusting too. But this, this is a King Arthur recipe to no one's surprise, right? It's their rustic sourdough bread.
02:11.36 Stan Lemon The reason I like this one is because it uses my sourdough discard about 227 grams of it, but I also get to use commercial yeast. So you get a little bit of that tangy, that rusticness, but I don't have to wait all day. Because with actual sourdough, right?
02:29.30 Stan Lemon the you know You feed your sourdough starter, you mix it, and then you wait a lot. Because the yeast is just not as potent, right?
02:39.46 Stan Lemon And it takes a little while to to do its thing and to perk the dough up and whatnot. And so this one, to be honest with you, with the... with the yeast that I use,
02:52.07 Stan Lemon I use Saf Instant. I can realistically get it into the oven in between an hour and 30 minutes, an hour and 45, like from the time I start.
03:00.22 Jon Nice.
03:00.63 Stan Lemon and i so So like today, right? I fed my sourdough as soon as I got home from church and my sourdough has been pretty ripe. I like, i don't know I don't know what's going on, but usually you want like five hours for that sucker to perk up, right?
03:16.00 Stan Lemon you do the discard, refeed it, then you you watch it go bubbly and then you use that. um At three hours, i it was game time. like I could tell that this this sourdough wanted to be used.
03:26.56 Stan Lemon So I i you know discarded 227 grams into the mixer bowl and then started assembling this dough. So I anticipated, to be honest with you, that I would make it after we recorded, but everything was just...
03:40.47 Jon Everything moved too fast.
03:42.07 Stan Lemon It moved too fast. So the nice thing about this recipe is it's just very predictable once you have the discard. So the discard is the variable. And i probably could have waited.
03:54.30 Stan Lemon ah probably could have gone earlier. Honestly, with this one, I probably could have away with using the discard from before I fed it. But they they generally say, you know, feed it, have ripe discard when you do it. So there you go
04:08.82 Jon Well, it looks edible, so.
04:11.40 Stan Lemon it's It's probably gonna be edible. The cutting job was totally sloppy. i The thing I did a little different this time um was I did the fold method rather than just pull it out and make some dough balls.
04:23.13 Stan Lemon ah So you you fold and you rest for five minutes or 10 minutes or whatever, and then you fold again.
04:23.20 Jon Mm-hmm.
04:27.80 Stan Lemon And I did three folds. I probably should have done two. Probably should have rested longer at the first one. you know Lo and behold. But I will say the other thing that I did a little different from this one is I increased the hydration.
04:36.60 Jon Okay.
04:40.94 Stan Lemon so I'm really curious to see what the crumb is like when I get in there. so Oh yeah, that thing's...
04:46.23 Jon Once upon a time when I was making bread the first time around, there was some no-knead bread that you let like ferment in the fridge for a week, and it gave it this nice tangy
04:57.30 Stan Lemon Yeah, that's fantastic. that I think that's that's like if you have the if you need bread today, it's not your best choice. If you need bread tomorrow, it's an okay choice. If you need bread in two to three days, it is the best thing that you can do, especially if in two to three days you have absolutely no time.
05:14.77 Stan Lemon this is This is like the the magic space for that. So that's ah that's King Arthur Recipe 2. It's like the no crusty no-knead crusty white bread, i think is it's called.
05:23.64 Jon Sounds right.
05:23.83 Stan Lemon And you can get like easily four loaves, maybe more out of it. It's a huge, a huge recipe. But the notion is you let it ferment slowly in the fridge and you scoop out what you want to make a loaf when you need it. Right. So what I've done with this one and the reason that I like it so much is I'll make the whole batch. I'll stick it in the fridge.
05:46.23 Stan Lemon Two to three days later, I'll make my first loaf. Two days later, I'll make another loaf. Then I'll make two more loaves. Right. And so you just kind of pluck from it. Like we, we go through bread so stinking fast cause I've got three kids.
05:56.79 Stan Lemon Um, but it's, it's so easy. Like you, you can't, you're not gonna mess it up. Right. And you get that tang from a sourdough, even though there's no sourdough starter and you don't need to start it at all. It's just yeast, but it's that slow fermentation in the fridge.
06:11.73 Stan Lemon Um, And so it tastes good. And because it's no need over that time window, it actually gets a pretty, pretty crazy gluten structure to it. Um, so it's got some nice pop.
06:22.32 Stan Lemon I don't know. Like, honestly, everybody should do it at least once.
06:24.44 Jon That has been on my mind recently, so I think I need to revisit it. um I had forgotten that it made multiple loaves, so that might be even a better reason to make it, but...
06:33.21 Stan Lemon Yeah. It's let me, let me see if i can find it. Cause it's a huge recipe, man. Um, like the one I did today, right? I've got 227 grams of um of a starter, right?
06:47.45 Stan Lemon So that's 50, 50 hydration level. But then I put in 600 grams of bread flour. So that's a big loaf too. This one uses 900 grams of unbleached all-purpose flour.
06:58.13 Stan Lemon That's the other nice thing about this too. You don't have to have bread flour. Some people don't have bread flour, blah, blah, blah. You can just use the unbleached all-purpose flour. So here, um i'll drop the I'll drop the recipe link in our Slack, our Slack, not our Slack, our messages.
07:13.17 Jon yeah
07:13.77 Stan Lemon We don't Slack.
07:14.36 Jon should we Should we start a Slack?
07:16.12 Stan Lemon No, no messages is fine.
07:17.09 Jon No.
07:17.76 Stan Lemon I don't need any more messaging channels in my life. Um, the pictures on King Arthur are always so much better than my loaves ever look. So the, the one on this one, um, they, they do some fantastic scoring. It gets a whole bunch of oven spring and you know, it it doesn't have to look that pretty. It still tastes amazing all I'll say.
07:40.78 Jon True. um What are your thoughts on butter, Stan?
07:47.64 Stan Lemon Um, I, I like butter. I don't butter my bread as heavily as Mrs. Lemon does. Um, I love whipped butter and I generally like butter that incorporate other ingredients.
08:04.02 Jon But you haven't like gone into like high-end butter or like made your own butter or anything like that?
08:10.23 Stan Lemon No, no, and you're never going to see me make my own butter. that That's not something I need to do. um What I will tell you is, is like, i I definitely appreciate a good butter. um Again, i have three kids. We go through a lot of butter.
08:24.02 Jon So you would have to hide the good butter.
08:24.05 Stan Lemon ah special
08:25.62 Jon Got it.
08:25.69 Stan Lemon Yeah, exactly, right? And that, like, is that worth it? So what I do do, and actually, Mrs. Lemon, the spread of butter she buys is salted, like, lightly.
08:35.99 Stan Lemon But I like to put... kosher salt or sea salt like some big granular salt very lightly on top of the butter that i use
08:47.30 Jon Okay. I ask because I've found myself deep in the rabbit hole of Instagram reels from this one place called ah the cheese store of Beverly Hills.
08:58.14 Jon Maybe I've sent some of these to you, um but it's amazing.
09:01.28 Stan Lemon this this does not ring a bell
09:04.07 Jon It me want cheese. It reminds me a little bit of the pen Mac company and cheese Nirvana. um But one of the things they carry is this Maison Bordier butter, um which I have never had, but it's like made in this old way. And they talk about how it's the best butter you'll ever have. So I'm intrigued.
09:25.92 Jon um And I've thought about buying this, especially as I get back into bread loaf making.
09:26.12 Stan Lemon Okay.
09:31.20 Stan Lemon You totally should. here i Again, like I have not personally purchased expensive butter, but to harken back to the crews, on Enchante, they make a big deal about the butter that they serve you.
09:45.06 Stan Lemon And, uh, it is really stinking good. It's also not salted and they give you some special, like it, it fell off a Frenchman's beard on the seashore kind of sea salt or something, right? Like it's, um, which is where i got the idea to do that at home. But that's, that's, uh, Ooh, you just sent me the link here. Should I buy some butter, John?
10:06.63 Jon Maybe.
10:06.98 Stan Lemon If I bought butter, if I bought this butter, would you come visit me?
10:10.18 Jon I need to come visit you. I don't have a ton of PTO saved up, but...
10:14.74 Stan Lemon I'm just wondering, like, would this sweeten the deal? Ha, no, it would make it more savory.
10:17.57 Jon Yes. Well, there's different flavors, too. I would think in just some kind of semi-salt or something like that.
10:25.07 Stan Lemon Seaweed Bordier butter.
10:27.20 Jon Oh, there's black truffle there, Stan.
10:29.96 Stan Lemon Yeah, that probably cost a small fortune.
10:34.43 Stan Lemon So remind me again, how did you find Maison Bordier?
10:37.92 Jon ah So it's called the Cheese Store of Beverly Hills, and they like post stuff on Instagram all the time.
10:44.77 Stan Lemon This is fascinating. I don't see a way in which I can order some.
10:47.88 Jon well Then we got to go to a different link, Stan.
10:50.96 Stan Lemon There's a find our products link. Find a retailer in France. Okay. Yeah. These locations are not in the US.
11:02.18 Jon So here is a website.
11:02.41 Stan Lemon Fascinating.
11:06.69 Jon that it looks like you can buy and ship it to you.
11:09.51 Stan Lemon Did you ask ChatGPT about this or did you you just are you actually using Google old school style?
11:13.70 Jon I used the Google.
11:15.36 Stan Lemon You use the Google and not even the AI, like Google, like actual Google search results.
11:19.20 Jon Now, the sponsored products are what came up first. And then it was the first first thing that showed up there.
11:24.34 Stan Lemon Oh, okay.
11:28.80 Stan Lemon The French pantry CA.com is the CA for California or Canada. what do you think?
11:37.07 Jon My guess would be California.
11:40.42 Stan Lemon My bet is Canada. I think they care more about their butter than Californians. Wow, this place has got a lot of stuff, man.
11:47.82 Stan Lemon But I'm not finding out what the CA means.
11:47.93 Jon So that
11:51.26 Stan Lemon This is fascinating to me. This is just the first result. and you just let Let me ask you.
11:55.08 Jon that was the first result in the sponsored shopping service.
11:57.15 Stan Lemon In general... When you Google search. Oh, focus on West Coast. It is from California. All right, there we go. So the French pantry, excuse me, the French Pantry California.com.
12:09.44 Stan Lemon ah Do you trust your first Google result when you get it?
12:13.58 Jon I mean, i look at it discerningly. um So I don't often.
12:17.86 Stan Lemon Do you trust it more or less than the first thing that ChatGPT gives you?
12:23.36 Jon Probably more.
12:24.93 Stan Lemon Oh, interesting. Interesting. So the algorithm is still superior to the robots.
12:30.91 Jon I would say probably. Ooh, can we order directly from the cheese store?
12:32.70 Stan Lemon Ooh, ooh, John. Spicy.
12:38.70 Stan Lemon I couldn't figure out how... Oh, the the place that you're watching online?
12:42.46 Jon Yeah.
12:43.72 Stan Lemon I don't know. i don't know.
12:46.14 Jon That was a cheese, soft cheeses.
12:48.77 Stan Lemon It always fascinates me, the YouTube that you get yourself into.
12:52.96 Jon I
12:54.43 Stan Lemon And the Instagram, like all of it, like you find stuff that's legitimately interesting.
12:54.62 Jon think
12:57.79 Stan Lemon And I get on and I swear to you, it's like memes about being old and ah like being terrible at exercise. that's ah That's all. And like like when I get on YouTube, when I get on YouTube, it's actually worse because most of it is like, hey, did your hemorrhoids not heal after your last run?
13:07.48 Jon Right.
13:14.56 Stan Lemon Check out this cream, right? Like that's that's my YouTube, which disincentivizes me to spend time on YouTube.
13:21.50 Jon This also um shows how very different we are, Stan, because I don't get it and get anything like that.
13:26.60 Stan Lemon Probably, probably. The reality is I probably clicked on a hemorrhoid link on accident in like 2007, right?
13:29.74 Jon ah
13:36.64 Jon It's followed you this far.
13:38.08 Stan Lemon It's followed me this far, it's followed me
13:39.34 Jon Stan, I think we can buy this butter from the cheese store.
13:43.08 Stan Lemon this far. All right, first you gotta send me a video that I should watch and I am willing to give this a shot.
13:47.67 Jon Okay.
13:52.18 Jon All right. um I'll find you some good cheeses that you should buy so that you know probably get free shipping if you order enough. Oh, nice.
13:58.60 Stan Lemon Perfect, perfect, perfect. And i've I'll supply the wine.
14:00.70 Jon Yep.
14:01.34 Stan Lemon I've got some wine. I actually have i have some more wine that I would like you to try. i did secure, i can't remember if I told said this in the last episode. I did secure some of the Robert Mondavi that I was in search of.
14:12.32 Jon oh nice yeah
14:13.38 Stan Lemon Yeah. um I think it's actually a few years younger than the bottle I had on the boat. So I got two bottles, right? One to try and then one in case I really like it. Otherwise it goes into the gift pile.
14:27.65 Jon And it looks like you've got six of my bottles left.
14:27.88 Stan Lemon but I, um,
14:33.15 Stan Lemon I think that's correct. Yes. I have six bottles. I sent you, I sent you, I, so I had, um, had a bunch of,
14:38.36 Jon You're running out of room again.
14:39.92 Stan Lemon I'm running out of room, but I've got room and I need to stock it. So what happened was I had ordered from wall street journal and then I got my discovery box and one box came while i was on the cruise.
14:53.12 Stan Lemon The other box came while I was in Chicago And i think i think the third box, because the third box just had three bottles, and i think it was like an add-on or something. So in total, we're talking about, let me think here, 30 bottles.
15:07.29 Stan Lemon I had 30 bottles that waiting to be delivered. It took over a month because for whatever reason, Wall Street Journal does not use FedEx in Indiana. It uses, yeah, this this is killing me.
15:14.64 Jon They do in Iowa.
15:17.36 Stan Lemon It uses this thing called Wine Direct, which is fine, but apparently they only drive down to Indianapolis once a week from Fort Wayne and not even every week. which is which is so dumb.
15:27.17 Jon Well, it's there's a lot of weird things there.
15:27.39 Stan Lemon So
15:28.86 Jon are Like, why aren't they based in Indy instead of Fort Wayne to begin with? um
15:32.10 Stan Lemon yeah, what is it about Fort Wayne that that is is a center of hub for wine distribution?
15:32.70 Jon and
15:37.77 Stan Lemon I do not know. but i So those came in. There's a bunch of bottles of stuff i already have in the mix, a bunch of new stuff too. I got three bottles of them of a Medoc that was an add-on that i think you would like too.
15:51.08 Stan Lemon Um, so anyhow, I racked all those a day and I recorded them in the Cellar AI app that I use. So I've got the, I've got the whole enchilada and yes, the racks look particularly full. I, there's some, I, I get a sense of pride when I look at those two racks and I see all of them there waiting for, for conversation.
16:09.42 Stan Lemon Cause that's what wine does. Wine doesn't wait to be drunk. It waits, it waits for conversation.
16:13.89 Jon um Does Mrs. Lemon talk about wine with you?
16:17.72 Stan Lemon Uh, just enough so that I open the bottle. I mean, like here, here, here's the reality. Okay. So Mrs. is Mrs. Lemon knows that I believe that wine requires good conversation.
16:28.67 Stan Lemon And so she humors me long enough to make sure that i uncork it, that I pour it, that I try it. And then she's basically like, leave me alone. I'm just gonna drink my wine. Right. Uh, so this is, this a good segue into something.
16:39.89 Jon She doesn't poke fun at you anymore.
16:42.43 Stan Lemon Oh, she absolutely. Are you kidding me? Are you kidding me? Yeah. I'm the punchline to every joke that Mrs. Lemon has. that's That's the reality. it's It's okay. I'm embracing it. 20 years into this mess, like, you know, what are you going to right? um No. Okay. So funny funny enough, something that we did this week, Mrs. Lemon and I, last Thursday, we did a wine tasting through NPR. So the National Public Radio, you've heard of NPR, right, John?
17:07.84 Jon Yes, I have. Are they still funded?
17:08.62 Stan Lemon Okay. All right. they're They're not, which is why they're doing events like ah dual wine tasting with Rick Steves.
17:11.93 Jon yeah
17:15.52 Stan Lemon Do you know who Rick Steves is?
17:16.91 Jon I do not.
17:17.89 Stan Lemon Okay. So he's he's like, ah he travels Europe a lot, right? Wrote some books, has had some shows.
17:22.45 Jon Let's be rough.
17:23.82 Stan Lemon Yeah, I know. Right. Yeah. Well, you know what? Look, you read the internet, apparently like didn't have a great relationship with his kids. He's divorced. Like, you know, there's a cost to spending 50 days at a time in Europe writing tour guides, right?
17:38.38 Stan Lemon By yourself.
17:38.63 Jon Right.
17:39.56 Stan Lemon um
17:39.58 Jon Yeah.
17:40.45 Stan Lemon But he used this thing called In Good Taste. So ingoodtaste.com. Did I send you a link to this?
17:47.95 Jon Maybe. You've sent me lots of things recently, Stan, across multiple different platforms.
17:50.08 Stan Lemon Okay. And you've been sick. We should talk about that too. So In Good Taste gives a sampler six or 12 bottles.
17:52.97 Jon Yeah.
17:57.04 Stan Lemon Each bottle holds exactly one glass, kind of like the advent calendar thing.
18:00.23 Jon You did some Malik.
18:01.58 Stan Lemon But they do it around themes. And going to be honest you. This was fantastic. like We had a really good European wine collection. i actually started with a white Bordeaux. There were two whites, four reds. White Bordeaux, there was a rosé.
18:15.10 Stan Lemon um There was a Pinot Noir cab. a Tempranillo. It was good spread, right? And all good wine. like not There was nothing that i was like, oh, this is terrible, right?
18:28.60 Jon Nice.
18:28.70 Stan Lemon And then for two hours, Rick Steves and a guy from In Good Taste talked about it on Zoom. I will say three glasses of wine because i split it with Mrs. Lemon, six bottles, three glasses. That's like two hours a little long, to be honest with you.
18:42.43 Stan Lemon but But we did it and it was fine. um I enjoyed it though. And I would actually recommend this ingoodtaste.com to anybody who just wants to try some different wine. Like I think this is actually a pretty pretty decent way to enter in. But, all right, this is the long way around. So I believe, right, wine is waiting to be open for good conversation.
19:02.49 Stan Lemon And Rick Steves kept talking about conviviality. Now, I've never watched his show. Apparently, like this is something he says a lot, but you know conviviality being like friendly, sociable, welcoming. It's like festive gathering, shared meals, you know, cheerful company, that kind of thing.
19:20.22 Stan Lemon So now...
19:21.12 Jon so yeah
19:22.38 Stan Lemon Now I'm like, i'm like this this is the wine word, conviviality, right?
19:28.22 Jon So how does this differ from the German word gemütlichkeit?
19:32.16 Stan Lemon You know, funny funny you say that because someone in the Zoom chat ah with this event the other night brought that up. I think it is very similar. Although, here's what I'll say. So, um conviviality, I think it's quite literally like ah to live with, right? From from the Latin.
19:51.74 Stan Lemon um or Or Italian's got a very similar like deal. I think it's a little more, i don't want say bougie, but a little more like,
20:04.19 Stan Lemon sophisticated than gumutlakeite. Because I think gamutlachite is not so much of, like, I don't think it has anything to do with the thing you're drinking, right?
20:08.38 Jon tracks.
20:15.17 Stan Lemon Like, nobody's like, you know, ah let me taste this flying beer and compare notes on the beer. Mmm, that smells like hops, right? I don't think that's in gamutlachite.
20:25.17 Stan Lemon I think gamutlachite is like a bunch of friends kicking back and having a beer and, and like, enjoying life in the moment, but less about the... the thing you're drinking.
20:36.21 Stan Lemon And I think, I think actually conviviality, it, then I could just be making this up, but I think conviviality, uh, incorporates.
20:43.71 Jon No one would be surprised by that.
20:45.38 Stan Lemon Yeah, I know. Right. i think conviviality, the spirit of it includes the thing being drunk.
20:51.99 Jon I'll allow it.
20:53.16 Stan Lemon So, uh, suffice to say, we had a very convivial, i don't think that's a word, uh, experience. It was good. Um, and, uh, yeah, I would recommend it.
21:03.23 Stan Lemon So apparently NPR does this every year too, which I didn't know. And I think, you know, as you can imagine the, the guy from in good taste was a sommelier, right. And Rick Steves is not sommelier, but he's traveled the world.
21:15.38 Stan Lemon And so, um, basically you had the sommelier talking about the wine and Rick Steves talking about the place in the world that was from. so it's kind of cool, right? To like listen to that.
21:24.00 Jon Nice.
21:24.14 Stan Lemon And Mrs. Lemon and I were like, oh yeah, you know we get that smell or that note or whatever. and kind of rolled with it there.
21:30.44 Jon Well, sorry i couldn't join you. Maybe not sure.
21:33.16 Stan Lemon You were, you were knocking on death's door and I keep meaning to ask, like, how, how are you doing?
21:36.34 Jon ah
21:38.01 Stan Lemon Because you, you completely fell off the radar, right? You went dark, you slept for like 36 hours or something.
21:45.23 Jon No, it wasn't 36 hours at the one time. um I actually... to my downfall, fought through work days. um But the one day i went to sleep immediately after work and slept until the next morning. So.
21:58.86 Stan Lemon All right. And are we talking on fever territory or like this is, know, gastrointestinal issues?
22:05.55 Jon A little bit of both. Some kind of virus for sure. um Started tuesday Tuesday evening, I wasn't feeling great. ah Wednesday, i was for sure knew I was sick um and didn't really feel human again until today, Sunday when we're recording. um I have not eaten a whole lot of substance since Tuesday, so I'm hoping to have a good dinner here.
22:30.77 Stan Lemon So when when I was a kid and I would get violently sick, the thing that would cure it was a Chicago-style hot dog.
22:37.62 Jon Yeah?
22:37.94 Stan Lemon A little place called Happy House in West Chicago. And and it was like ah my but I would find myself even more quickly healed if I could get one Chicago-style hot dog and one chili cheese dog.
22:50.60 Jon That does not sound appetizing at all to me right now, Stan.
22:54.18 Stan Lemon ah
22:54.92 Jon ah
22:55.12 Stan Lemon but about What about a charcuterie board, some fatty cheese and some really fatty meats and some crackers and maybe some wine?
23:04.72 Jon Possibly.
23:05.68 Stan Lemon See, at our age, John, that sounds good all the time, right?
23:08.42 Jon yeah
23:09.27 Stan Lemon Yeah, yeah. that
23:12.18 Jon uh so yeah rumors of my demise have been somewhat exaggerated but it was not fun and i recommend you stay healthy and i probably should go on the stan lemon nutrition and fitness plan again ah to fight off illness so
23:23.83 Stan Lemon ah Listen, man, I got pretty nasty sick back in the winter. So I don't know that. I think some of this done up a little.
23:31.09 Jon it actually does anything yeah all the lottery
23:32.94 Stan Lemon Yeah. um let Let me ask you Did you have a moment where youre like, I should have washed my hands at plate at point X in time?
23:41.96 Jon I did not, but I've been trying to think where I picked this up. um And like, it was either church or work because I don't go anywhere else, Dan.
23:49.40 Stan Lemon It's always church for me, right? And like, i know i always know exactly when it happens, right? It'll be like, there's a school function at the church service and like everybody's coughing, sniffling because, you know, kids don't wash their hands.
23:56.05 Jon Hmm.
24:03.27 Stan Lemon They eat their own boogers. And the only thing grosser, than a small child is their parent, right? Because half that gooby gobbledygook blah is actually being wiped onto them and their lives are too busy to slow down.
24:10.23 Jon Hmm.
24:18.44 Stan Lemon Like we we probably had a pandemic because of small children's parents being gross.
24:24.58 Stan Lemon just but But seriously, like i I always play this game. like Where did I get sick? you know What was I doing? and I'm 99.9% of the time, I'm fairly certain it was from church or or my kids' co-op that they go to right because they're just walking cesspools.
24:38.66 Jon Yep.
24:40.18 Stan Lemon Even as old as they are at 16, 14, 11, they're still walking cesspools. Healthiest of my life were the couple of years before Lucy was born.
24:46.16 Jon Yeah.
24:49.36 Stan Lemon Oh, it's great. I was out of school. She went around and like I, I was, it was, there was a little like iron wall around my, um, my constitution.
25:02.78 Jon And you worked from home.
25:04.22 Stan Lemon And I worked from home. Yeah, it was perfect. Perfect. People, really people are the problem.
25:08.28 Jon People are the problem.
25:10.60 Stan Lemon All right. I wanted to talk to you about this 1Password thing. So I'm going to read this email because you got this email too. You actually got it before I did. So hi, Stan. Since 2005, by the way, were you were you a 1Password subscriber or?
25:24.25 Jon I was not.
25:25.37 Stan Lemon Okay.
25:25.76 Jon No.
25:25.85 Stan Lemon So I think the iPhone came out what, 07?
25:30.08 Stan Lemon I, 07 or 08 is when I, when I joined the 1Password ecosystem. So i was a few years late, but not, not too late. all right. It's been a long time.
25:36.13 Jon No, cheerleader than me.
25:37.40 Stan Lemon It's one of the, one of the first applications that I bought. for the iPhone. Since 2005, 1Password has been on a mission to make security simple, reliable, and accessible for everyone. As the way people work and live online has evolved, so has 1Password.
25:52.63 Stan Lemon That's a question I want to talk about, John. Has 1Password evolved? All More recently, we've invested in in significantly in new features that make 1Password even more powerful and effortless to use, helping protect what matters most to you. All right. Let me list a couple of features. And I wanted to know, John, if you have noticed these features, okay?
26:11.16 Jon ah you going to read the features?
26:14.22 Stan Lemon Yeah, first and foremost, automatic saving of logins and payment details.
26:20.43 Jon um I would not say that I have noticed this, because I get prompted by like three different things now to save the things.
26:27.82 Stan Lemon Okay, automatic saving of logins, I definitely notice. Payment details, I can't say have. But I was thinking about this, automatic saving of logins, that's been around forever. like That's not a new thing.
26:38.61 Jon Right.
26:39.37 Stan Lemon Okay. All right. Second one, enhanced Watchtower alerts.
26:44.04 Jon I have not gotten any Watchtower alerts or gone to look for them either.
26:44.30 Stan Lemon Have you
26:49.00 Stan Lemon ever, have you ever gotten them?
26:50.38 Jon I have in the past. I have not recently.
26:53.71 Stan Lemon Okay. I cannot say that I have ever gotten a Watchtower alert proactively. I do click on the tab periodically. Do you want to compare Watchtower scores? I think this would be interesting.
27:05.84 Jon We can try.
27:07.08 Stan Lemon All right, let's do this. What's your Watchtower score, John? I will tell you that mine is 1,140. No,
27:15.21 Jon You know this off the top of your head?
27:17.36 Stan Lemon and I pulled it up in preparation for this discussion. I've been thinking about this all day.
27:19.99 Jon I did not. What's the fastest way to get there, Stan? Because it's not from the browser extension.
27:23.53 Stan Lemon You open up 1Password, you click on Watchtower, and it's... Do you not use the app?
27:29.19 Jon I don't. Well, I use the app on the phone.
27:33.48 Stan Lemon So, wait, wait, hold a whole lot on. On your Mac, do you not have it installed?
27:37.36 Jon I'm sure I have it installed because it has to power the extension.
27:41.64 Stan Lemon Well, if you're using Chrome, you actually don't need the app.
27:44.80 Jon Generally, I don't use Chrome. so
27:46.44 Stan Lemon So on the app, on the phone, Watchtower is in the in the tab bar. It's the one to the right. But it doesn't show you your... Oh, yes, it does. Yeah.
27:56.70 Jon Watchtower.
27:56.88 Stan Lemon John, are you there?
27:58.01 Jon Calculating.
27:58.18 Stan Lemon Come on.
27:59.08 Jon I'm here. 749. ah
28:00.10 Stan Lemon It's calculating. 749.
28:01.24 Jon seven forty nine
28:02.100 Stan Lemon All right. Wow, John. You got some improvement to do there, buddy.
28:07.60 Jon It says it's very good, though.
28:09.82 Stan Lemon Mine is fantastic. Not that anybody's keeping score. All right. But again, never had a Watchtower alert. So then it says faster, more secure device setup. i I know that I set it up. I had to.
28:23.35 Stan Lemon i don't like I don't know that it was fast. I don't think it was ever slow. So this is a little sus. right. The next one is AI-powered item naming.
28:33.02 Jon This I have not noticed either.
28:34.55 Stan Lemon I have not noticed either. And this one actually like made me laugh out loud a little bit. All right. Expanded recovery options. i I can't say that I even know what that's a reference to.
28:45.02 Jon Right.
28:45.05 Stan Lemon And the last one is proactive phishing prevention. I have no idea what they're doing to prevent phishing.
28:52.92 Jon Right.
28:53.72 Stan Lemon Because to be honest with like the the phishing is coming from my email or my texts or Right? And as far as I know, 1Password is not integrated into either of those platforms.
29:06.04 Jon I wonder if it like will alert you if you're on a phishing sus page.
29:11.83 Stan Lemon Maybe before you try to log into it, I guess. I don't know. But so this what struck me.
29:15.48 Jon Yeah.
29:16.94 Stan Lemon I looked at this list and i wasn't convinced by any of these items. right, so these are supposedly the, like they're setting this up for the rationale for what's about to come, which is while 1Password has grown substantially in value and capability, our pricing has largely remained unchanged for many years.
29:35.80 Stan Lemon To continue investing in innovation and the world-class security you expect, we're updating pricing. all right now, John, how much are they updating their pricing by?
29:44.73 Jon thirty three percent
29:48.09 Stan Lemon $1 a month for the for the like standard, 33%.
29:49.50 Jon thirty three percent
29:53.29 Stan Lemon It's a big stinking jump. So it was basically about 36 bucks and it's going up about 48 bucks. right, the new price will take a effect at your next renewal, provided it's on or after March 27th, which that was also crazy to me. So they sent this email on February 24th. So they gave exactly one month. So for those that don't want to do the $12, 33%
30:18.04 Stan Lemon They got one month to figure it out.
30:20.50 Stan Lemon This, here's the thing. i I believe that I have told you many times that I am in favor of paying for software.
30:31.85 Stan Lemon there's Something about this one bothered me. And again, I'm 99% sure. let me just actually ask the the Googles. When did 1Password launch on the iPhone?
30:42.75 Stan Lemon Do you think Gemini is gonna be able to answer this?
30:45.81 Stan Lemon the summer of 2008. So i think i bought it I think I bought it on the Mac shortly before that, but it definitely like overlapped with the iPhone coming out in 07. So that's how long I've been using. And back then, like you had to buy the software. It was not a subscription.
31:02.32 Stan Lemon When it became a subscription, I switched to it. For those that remember way, way, way back when you bought the software, you could sync using WebDAV or iCloud. And at some point they changed. i don't think you could, can you still sync with iCloud on 1Password? Is that a thing?
31:21.81 Jon Not that I know of.
31:23.38 Stan Lemon Yeah, I don't think so either. It'd be interested interesting if find out. I feel like they dropped that with 1Password 8. So I still to this day, I can't tell you what changed for me in my day-to-day between 7 and 8.
31:36.56 Stan Lemon um But here we are. So this this is what bugs me. Software... should be less expensive to run today than it was yesterday, right? Like if your software is not changing, backend, infra, all of that is not getting more expensive.
31:55.31 Stan Lemon The app store has not incurred any increase in charges. In fact, I don't think I can subscribe to 1Password through the app store, but if I could, the cut would actually be less now as a year two subscriber, because that's how that works.
32:09.70 Stan Lemon I'm annoyed by this. I was just curious, what's what's your take?
32:13.75 Jon I think it is a giant increase to just kind of be announced um when like I would have been much cooler with incremental increases over the years.
32:27.28 Stan Lemon I agree with that from a sentiment standpoint. Like if you bumped that up two bucks over the last six years, I don't think I would be upset that we were going to $48 a month right now.
32:40.21 Stan Lemon um You don't do a family subscription, do you?
32:44.21 Jon I do not.
32:45.34 Stan Lemon Okay. family, didn't look to see if that changed in cost. That would be interesting. I have dabbled for a while with the possibility of switching to a family subscription and I've decided not to. So my wife and I share the same 1Password account.
33:01.55 Stan Lemon My kids actually use iCloud passwords. And lately, i because this is a thing now, ever since the passwords app became a standalone thing, I've noticed that you can create like folders and share those folders with people, right?
33:16.65 Stan Lemon And so you can put passwords into those folders. So like my kids, they all want the Disney Plus username and password. I can drop it in there, share it with them. And the beauty of that is like ah it just works. It pops up, they go to disney.com and boom, they're logged in, right?
33:30.19 Jon Yep.
33:31.22 Stan Lemon They can also book a cruise with that account. They don't know that, thankfully.
33:35.83 Jon Do any of them listen to the podcast currently?
33:37.43 Stan Lemon ah Who knows? We'll find out. I'm sure someone will tell me if they do.
33:39.09 Jon ah
33:40.53 Stan Lemon um But i don't know, man. Like it rubbed me the wrong way. And for the first time, the literally for the first time since we'll say 2008, I thinking about moving off of 1Password.
33:51.70 Stan Lemon And it's not because I don't love the app. I actually think it's a fantastic app. It's a fantastic experience. I cannot tell you what has changed for me to warrant 33% increase, $12 year increase.
34:05.36 Jon Right.
34:06.45 Stan Lemon The thing that bothers me a little bit about what I'm saying is I'm going to go to the coffee store on Saturday and I'm going to probably spend more. I'm going to probably spend like 14 or 15 bucks on two cups of coffee and a tip and maybe, maybe a cookie.
34:15.04 Jon Right.
34:18.87 Stan Lemon So it's not, it's not the overall price.
34:18.97 Jon Right.
34:20.67 Stan Lemon The overall price is my problem.
34:22.82 Jon It's the positioning.
34:24.98 Stan Lemon Position. You give me a list of things that honestly, I think have been either around for a while or or have not materially improved your application, it just it's just a bad look, man. It's a really bad look.
34:37.31 Jon I don't know, 33% at one time seems seems steep.
34:42.39 Stan Lemon So are you thinking about changing? you thinking about... Yeah.
34:45.75 Jon I really am, especially since like the market, like I could just switch everything iCloud right.
34:53.85 Stan Lemon Yeah. This is this is where this what people are doing because when they split out that passwords app, they made it a separate thing. they They decided to treat it like a thing they care about rather than just being buried in the keychain. And to be honest with the the keychain was always quite good, right?
35:07.77 Jon Oh, yeah.
35:09.11 Stan Lemon um But yeah, it's it's definitely better. Now, here's here's where there's different categories of content in... 1Password that don't quite fit into the passwords app. So there's, there's a gap there. um I also don't know if you can do arbitrary fields in the passwords app.
35:28.28 Stan Lemon Like you can, maybe you can, I just don't know it.
35:29.04 Jon Hmm.
35:30.71 Stan Lemon Um,
35:31.03 Jon How often do you use those, though?
35:33.87 Stan Lemon Uh, so for me, it'll be like an API key or a pin in addition to my credentials or, um, when I've been like ah a restoration, like a backup recovery key, like those kinds of things, that's when I use it.
35:47.04 Jon Right.
35:48.22 Stan Lemon Right. And maybe I can just stick it in notes and it'll be fine. I don't know. But, uh, that's what I gotta, that's what figure out. I will say like, I think, I think the passwords app is simpler.
36:01.76 Stan Lemon It's cleaner. You know, I like that it has my wifi passwords as well.
36:05.95 Jon I mean, you can add verification codes, passkeys.
36:09.20 Stan Lemon Passkeys, all of it. Yeah, yeah, And it does do, this is interesting too. It does have security recommendations, right? um And I don't know what all fuels those.
36:16.05 Jon Right.
36:18.06 Stan Lemon I don't know if it's just like, um this one's too short. You reuse this one. i don't I don't actually know what the heuristic is for stuff that pops up there.
36:26.17 Jon So there is a notes field, which I think would probably get you most of the way there.
36:33.37 Stan Lemon I mean, you yeah, you can put a whole bunch of content in there for sure. But, you know, I think the other thing is like just getting to the, um, the, the mental mindset of, of doing it. I don't know, like in the migration, cause I'm a little terrified to migrate my passwords to be completely honest with you.
36:53.28 Jon Yep.
36:54.46 Stan Lemon I got to figure out, like, I'm i'm fairly certain the ones that I've set passkeys up, are those are going to be the hardest. And that's the one I keep thinking about, like, how would I actually go about doing those? I think I probably have to set them up anew.
37:06.30 Stan Lemon So it's on my mind. I got till June. When do you renew?
37:09.75 Jon think it's November, so I've got time to me see. Oh, it's the end of the year, December 28th.
37:15.83 Stan Lemon Yeah, my name.
37:17.59 Jon Yep.
37:18.84 Stan Lemon Okay. There you go. So for me again, like I said, it's June. I got a few months, but not a ton. And I'm just so annoyed by this that I think I might do it out of spite. The thing is like, if I make, here's the other thing too. And this is what I don't know. Like maybe 1Password is just making so much money on the business side that they don't care about the consumer side anymore.
37:37.97 Stan Lemon That's, that's totally possible. Right. But, um, if people make this switch and if in particular they make this switch over to something like iCloud that is free, or if you're in Chrome and they switch to Chrome, the Google password manager, right?
37:52.18 Stan Lemon Like you're not recovering that revenue ever.
37:52.35 Jon Yep.
37:55.70 Stan Lemon That just seems short short-sighted, man. And I really have loved this app for a long time. So i don't know. i don't know.
38:03.03 Jon What do you use at work?
38:05.53 Stan Lemon I use my 1Password. Yeah.
38:07.28 Jon he So there's no company-sponsored password manager?
38:10.77 Stan Lemon There's 1Password. They have a business account for 1Password.
38:12.32 Jon Got it.
38:13.37 Stan Lemon Yeah. Interestingly, at Salesforce, it was LastPass, which is...
38:17.02 Jon Yeah, we use LastPass, too.
38:17.45 Stan Lemon LastPass is still a thing, right?
38:19.28 Jon Yep, we use LastPass at work.
38:21.33 Stan Lemon So everybody freaked out by LastPass ah during one breach, right? but This is like vaguely familiar to me.
38:27.22 Jon Right.
38:29.04 Stan Lemon um That could be an option too. Does LastPass have a way to convert from 1Password? Because if they can migrate my my keys, maybe that's the way to go. I think, see if this makes sense, you know that I'm snooty about my applications.
38:42.89 Stan Lemon Like I want a native Mac feel and experience.
38:44.99 Jon Right. And that's not LastPass.
38:46.29 Stan Lemon That was always my beef with LastPass. Yeah.
38:48.23 Jon Right.
38:51.67 Stan Lemon 1Password just felt like Mac software because it was originally just Mac software. Now it's now's everywhere, which is fine. Like more power to them. But um yeah, 33%. I think the optics are bad.
39:02.55 Stan Lemon I think they're going to, I haven't looked online, but I'm sure they're getting some flack for this.
39:08.01 Jon yeah there's probably a whole subreddit, Stan
39:11.70 Stan Lemon Probably, probably we'll have to go looking for it. All right, well, we'll stay tuned and see if I do tackle migration, what that looks like. I think um if I do it, I'm gonna do it in chunks. I've been thinking a little bit about this, like try to see if I can figure out a way to migrate just.
39:24.08 Jon there's probably a bunch of like stuff you no longer need there too okay you go through
39:28.57 Stan Lemon This is where I'm a little OCD. I actually actually go through periodically he clean it up. Yeah. yeah i' I'll like go in and see, oh, I haven't logged into the site. I wonder if the password still works. Actually, is Blue Coffee? as that what it's called?
39:46.71 Stan Lemon Blue Coffee? Yeah, Blue Bottle Coffee. I logged in the other day to see if that one still worked and didn't. They apparently changed their whole user system, left me behind.
39:54.45 Jon so
39:54.89 Stan Lemon So deleted that credential, you know.
39:56.31 Jon Nice.
39:57.11 Stan Lemon um But there's a bunch of stuff in here that I'm going to have to happy mess with.
40:01.09 Jon You're an interesting guy, Stan.
40:03.37 Stan Lemon I I've got some peculiar habits here. Let's just for the sake of conversation, if you open up your 1Password, you click on all items, you scroll all the way down to the bottom. How many items do you have?
40:17.49 Jon um I'm sure less than you.
40:22.01 Stan Lemon You think, cause I actually bet with my cleanup, uh, OCD, you probably have more.
40:25.96 Jon I think so.
40:27.70 Stan Lemon Yeah. Drum roll, drum roll, as John figures out if he still has 1Password installed.
40:34.76 Stan Lemon Jonathan, Jonathan, it's not that hard. Open up, scroll.
40:38.25 Jon I'm scrolling. 651.
40:40.65 Stan Lemon Really? I'll be darned. So 1017. All
40:45.28 Stan Lemon right. i yeah John's like, I rest my case. um I have some things that I have no business keeping. Like I have the license key for transmit 4.0. which is old.
40:56.86 Stan Lemon Like I edited that, that was in May of 2010. That software doesn't run on the Mac that I have. I'm pretty sure they've switched all to um subscription at this point too.
41:10.98 Jon Yeah, there's a bunch of stuff here that I can clean up. So my earliest is March 2017. Yep,
41:17.42 Stan Lemon That's your earliest entry in 1Password?
41:19.32 Jon yeahp I was on LastPass before then.
41:21.71 Stan Lemon Wow, okay. wonder if I
41:26.39 Stan Lemon Okay, so hold on. If I order by date, this is April 2010. It's got to be a date from
41:34.42 Stan Lemon when i I moved to the cloud-backed version. yeah i Look, I got a password for Keurig. I bet this doesn't work.
41:43.05 Stan Lemon Is Keurig still a thing? Because it's not, yeah, Keurig's not even resolving.
41:45.58 Jon Yes. Fairly certain Keurig is still a thing.
41:47.84 Stan Lemon okay. I mean, they got the machines, but Keurig.com, does that still think? That seems weird.
41:56.81 Jon That definitely resolved for me.
41:59.12 Stan Lemon All right, then Next DNS is probably blocking something. Oh, you know what it is? They don't redirect the non-WWW. That's sloppy.
42:05.77 Jon Ah, that is sloppy.
42:06.72 Stan Lemon That's really dumb. Okay, Mint.
42:08.84 Jon well
42:09.76 Stan Lemon I got Mint in here, John. You can't use Mint anymore.
42:13.10 Jon Mint doesn't exist anymore.
42:13.25 Stan Lemon should clean up. No, that was a shame. That's how i got on Monarch, though, and I like Monarch, but...
42:16.80 Jon Yep. Monarch is good.
42:20.20 Stan Lemon Okay, right, so we'll stay tuned on that. I think I'm gonna migrate. I'm just trying to build up the mental fortitude to do so. Let's talk about the next thing. Did you have a look at this Claude remote control stuff I sent you?
42:32.04 Jon I looked at this and like, I'm wondering why in 2026, we still need something like this. Cause it reminds me of like team viewer when I was trying to log into ah my, yeah.
42:44.26 Stan Lemon Oh, okay.
42:44.94 Jon that
42:46.24 Stan Lemon That's an interesting analogy. I hadn't thought about that. oh So this is fascinating, right? So Claude Remote Control is ah ah supposedly available for pro and max subscribers.
42:56.63 Stan Lemon I've been a max subscriber in the past. I'm currently just a pro subscriber. I have six days left. um
43:02.08 Jon Is this the one that you got free credits on this week though?
43:05.26 Stan Lemon Well, i had free I had free credits when Opus 4.6 was released and I burned through those quick.
43:05.51 Jon Which one reset early?
43:11.59 Stan Lemon That was fun. um i'm I'm getting double usage on Codex with the new Codex desktop app right now. That's probably what you we're thinking of. But Claude Remote Control is supposedly supposed to let me use claude.ai, the website, to check on my, you know, Claude Code sessions on my laptop.
43:34.15 Stan Lemon And Claude does have a in the cloud version and it's okay. I'll be honest with you, like I've had some really mixed results with multi-turn stuff. So I very rarely open up Claude code and like one shot of prompt and it's done and I'm good to go. Right. Right.
43:50.60 Stan Lemon um The other thing is because I'm doing, this is why I'm excited about it because I'm doing Swift's development, principally iOS development, the none of the hosted products, this goes for Claude, this goes for Codex, run Mac servers.
44:01.59 Jon Molotoling. tolling
44:06.02 Stan Lemon Even GitHub Actions, if you want to run a Mac server, is a stupid expensive per minute rate. Like it is, it's like a hundred times more expensive for per minute runtime.
44:17.61 Stan Lemon on GitHub to use a Mac than it is a normal Linux box, right? So I looked at this and I was like, oh, how cool would it be if I could kick off a session, go drive my kid to gymnastics, and then when I you know drop her off, park for a minute to see how the session is, do the next turn, and then drive home. Like I thought that would be that would be cool, right?
44:42.34 Stan Lemon But I have not been able to get this to work. Every time I try, it says it's not available.
44:48.19 Jon Interesting.
44:49.22 Stan Lemon And this is, well, I'm guessing it's a rollout problem.
44:49.83 Jon something blocking it?
44:53.86 Stan Lemon Like I'm sure a bunch of people are excited about this. And this is, this is what I wanted to talk about. Like, I think the, you know, this goes back to my Codex, uh, Apple Health, not Codex, sorry, ChatGPT, Apple Health integration, which by the way, still on the wait list for still don't have, um, um,
45:12.32 Stan Lemon They're rolling features out so stinking fast, but they don't have the scale to support them. That's my guess, right? Based upon just how this roll is going. So they make a big announcement. They're going toe to toe. It's like the browser wars or the Mac PC wars, whatever you want to call it. um But they're not available to everyone.
45:31.26 Stan Lemon And i i think I think this is a stupid strategy in general.
45:35.91 Jon Well, and I think that like that's kind of your jam too, is being right-sized for demand. um like That goes back to when we first first tried to stream things.
45:42.66 Stan Lemon right right size for the banana quality
45:47.32 Jon like
45:50.15 Stan Lemon yeah oh back in the day those are good times um here's this this resonates with me a little bit because over winter break the exercise app that i've been building now for a few months and using i use it every day um I d went like through crazy feature succession over winter break.
46:13.00 Stan Lemon And I was like, build this feature, build this feature. And it did. And it like would push it up and I would use it the next day and I was excited about it. And day after day after day, right? My winter break was just crazy.
46:26.25 Stan Lemon And I would review some of the code, but I wasn't like steering the architecture with ah with a close eye. And as I've had less credits and less time, because I'm, you know, the the the winter holidays, both Anthropic and OpenAI, were giving stuff away like candy. But also I had more time.
46:47.87 Stan Lemon I've slowed down. i've been able to look at like some of the code that produced and also um address some bugs that I found along the way. And it it's not been great code, John. It's not been great code. Yeah.
47:00.58 Stan Lemon Some of it's fantastic, but other parts, like things that were big and already out of control, they got really big and out of control. And so I've been spending a lot of time just doing like architectural refactoring of the application.
47:14.98 Stan Lemon And this got me to thinking, like, is my problem why I am not able to use Claude Remote Control or ChatGPT, Apple Health Integration?
47:24.59 Jon Is your problemless?
47:26.32 Stan Lemon Yeah, like like from a philosophical standpoint, right? Like are these tools making the output so easy that sometimes we just want to move fast, right, to get the next thing without without paying attention to the quality, of the structure of it, right?
47:36.78 Jon Oh yeah.
47:41.07 Stan Lemon um I think intentionality is is maybe one of the big missing pieces to how we're using these tools right now.
47:49.30 Jon I think there's that. I think that it also kind of mirrors, uh, probably your life as a developer too. Um, like if you go back to high school, it's like, it was so cool that you could make something work that it worked.
48:01.53 Jon Um, and now you would cringe if you saw what you wrote back you probably still have some while you wrote back
48:06.13 Stan Lemon Oh, one yeah, 1,000%. I had some cool ideas back then, though. I won't lie. i won't lie.
48:12.78 Jon Right.
48:13.60 Stan Lemon Blog SCL, that was ahead of its time. Yeah,
48:15.76 Jon Oh, absolutely.
48:18.86 Stan Lemon yeah I think there's something to that. i think, though, also, like, i you know, I don't know if your LinkedIn looks like this, but my LinkedIn is all, is AI going to replace our jobs, right, as as software engineers?
48:30.31 Jon Sure.
48:31.73 Stan Lemon Is this true what your LinkedIn looks like?
48:33.74 Jon I definitely get a lot of that.
48:35.70 Stan Lemon Okay. So software engineers are freaking out. And I saw someone today talking about, it's not going to replace the principal engineer. It's going replace the junior engineer. I'm not sure that's true because you don't get principal engineers unless you have junior developers or junior engineers.
48:50.80 Jon Right.
48:51.78 Stan Lemon There's a group.
48:51.86 Jon It just kind of raises the bar there, probably.
48:53.97 Stan Lemon Yeah, it does. It does. But I think... um I think, and I was talking with Lucy about this because she's got a debate project for school about the impact of automation, right? The effects of automation, like is automation good or bad?
49:09.81 Stan Lemon And I told her, you know, zoom out and set technology, like set set computers to set for a moment. Let's talk about technology elsewhere, right? Like um what about in the production of the automobile, right? Right.
49:23.47 Stan Lemon did did technology help there? And she said, well, of course, you know, because everybody knows about Henry Ford, right? All that.
49:28.34 Jon Right. Yep. Right.
49:29.49 Stan Lemon But I said, well, what about what about Amazon? Because Amazon notoriously has the robot arms, right? The pack, right? are Like, did did automation help there? And here's the juxtaposition of it too. Did it create more jobs or did it take away more jobs?
49:44.56 Stan Lemon How many people do you know who work for Amazon in some capacity right now? You know, i would I would argue that like the automation that Amazon did made it possible for more jobs to exist for the things that automation couldn't do.
49:57.46 Stan Lemon And i think I think that's gonna be true with the AI bit, you know, in the fullness of time here. We've we've got a curve to adjust. um But then, then we were ah we were talking about, or we were we were watching Downton Abbey, right?
50:13.46 Stan Lemon And i do you remember in season four,
50:14.35 Jon Yeah, so the whole thing is about ah how does this whole class of people like become obsolete? so
50:20.27 Stan Lemon It does. It does. But there was a particular episode in season four where a mixer, ah Daisy, gets a mixer.
50:27.84 Jon Oh, yes.
50:28.15 Stan Lemon Mrs. Patmore is freaking out, right?
50:30.10 Jon um Yep.
50:30.61 Stan Lemon And I didn't write it down, but there some line to the effect of like, do you think we're going to bake less bread because of the mixer? Right. It's like, no, no, you probably bake more.
50:40.87 Stan Lemon Right. Which means the, the folks who are using it, like their jobs aren't going away just cause you don't need, need the bread. Um, and then funny enough, uh, Mary Smith's character, um, there's, there's a mousse or something.
50:48.33 Jon Right. Right.
50:52.59 Stan Lemon And then she was like wow, this is so fantastic. This is the best mousse is because the mixer whipped it. Right. Um, And I think about that, like that is the moment we're having with AI right now, right? So it's Mrs. Patmore looking at the mixer, thinking that her job is going to go away.
51:09.97 Stan Lemon And in reality, we're just going to have more fantastic things, right? And the nature of the jobs we have will change.
51:17.79 Jon I think I'm with you. i think that I also, like my reaction is for the most part, um, America's relationship with work is not overly healthy.
51:31.71 Jon Um, so I would kind of like to see us work less.
51:36.60 Stan Lemon I think that would be fantastic. I don't know how we get there because, yeah, to say it's unhealthy as a, maybe a understatement, but we should hopefully be able to yield more productivity, more, um, economic benefits for individuals, not just, uh, just big companies.
51:55.45 Stan Lemon Right.
51:55.79 Jon right. Yep.
51:56.79 Stan Lemon Uh, and spend more time doing things that are not work. I think that is true. Whether or not Americans, you know, are,
52:07.06 Stan Lemon competent enough to to do that. it remains to be seen. We'll see. But yeah, I don't know. John, let me ask this. In our lifetime, do you think you will see something less than the 40-hour work week?
52:20.93 Jon All right. Um, probably not widely accepted. No.
52:25.80 Stan Lemon Do you think you will see the option for a shorter work week that makes less money?
52:31.64 Jon No, I don't.
52:33.69 Stan Lemon Okay. All right. I hope, I hope, John, i hope for that. This, cause I think, I think the idea of 40 hours making, or sorry, 30 hours making the same that I'm making at 40 hours. I think that's impossible. It's never going to occur, but I could see a world in which I have the option to take a job at 30 hours a week rather than 40.
52:56.35 Stan Lemon You know, some people are going to say, oh, can, it's part-time, but that's not what i'm talking about here.
52:57.55 Jon Maybe. I think... i I think that this also opens up a lot of opportunity for starting your own business too, and being a solopreneur or things of that nature.
53:11.16 Jon um And it starts removing some friction there.
53:13.95 Stan Lemon I hope so. That'd be great. um I think there's still some intimidating burdens to get over, but I hope so. Speaking of which, John, have you came up have you yeah exactly exactly have you come up with the the great big project we're going to write with you guys?
53:21.76 Jon like healthcare being completely broken, but.
53:30.11 Jon I have ideas. um I was had grand plans to sit around and ah develop those so I could give you some marching orders, but I got sick.
53:41.06 Stan Lemon You got sick.
53:41.59 Jon um
53:42.25 Stan Lemon Basically, you got you got poisoned probably by AI bots. They knew that you were going create an idea.
53:45.59 Jon Probably.
53:46.81 Stan Lemon Yeah, that's what it was.
53:47.78 Jon It's going to make millions of dollars, but we'll revisit it and we'll see when, since now the weekend is almost over.
53:49.53 Stan Lemon Millions of dollars. There we go. Yeah. All right. Well, yeah, almost over. You know, got to tell you, i I'm in between sports right now, and I'm enjoying recording on Sunday afternoon because we kind of just do it midday, and I got nothing else going on. It's delightful.
54:07.64 Jon Nice.
54:08.50 Stan Lemon there's There's probably something...
54:09.08 Jon Surely there's another sport to watch.
54:11.50 Stan Lemon What's that?
54:12.40 Jon Surely there's another sport to watch.
54:13.83 Stan Lemon Well, there's normal basketball, but i don't i don't like I just watch women's basketball and i watch football. like I limit myself to two sports that don't have overlapping seasons.
54:20.75 Jon OK.
54:22.52 Stan Lemon I admit I watched the Pacers last year during the big run, but um I'm in between. I'm in between sports. It's okay. It's okay right now. you know We'll see if the WNBA even plays this year with the way things are going, but we'll know that in about nine days.
54:34.40 Jon Hmm.
54:35.43 Stan Lemon Yeah.
54:37.50 Jon Keep us posted, Stan.
54:37.67 Stan Lemon All right. Yeah, of course. Of course. All right, John. I think this is a good place as any to end it. I appreciate you coming back from the dead to record this week's episode. All
54:47.45 Jon ah I should be back next week. We'll to figure out what to talk about.
54:51.36 Stan Lemon right. Until next time, John.
54:53.15 Jon Later.