00:00:55.99 Jon Did we win, Stan?
00:00:57.98 Stan Lemon We did not. It was a valiant effort. No, not really. No, Iowa sadly did not show up much at all to the game. um They got blown out.
00:01:10.55 Stan Lemon Yeah.
00:01:12.50 Jon I don't particularly care, but it's always good to know, um like before I go to work tomorrow, where I'm surrounded by a bunch of like Iowa alum and people who follow Iowa sports very, very heavily.
00:01:26.07 Stan Lemon Do you know anyone that came to this game?
00:01:28.98 Jon I do not um at this point in time.
00:01:32.76 Stan Lemon Okay, so it was not an Iowa home game. It was the Big Ten Finals, which actually, I didn't even tell you I was going to this game, did I?
00:01:42.04 Jon You did not, but you said that you were coding from there. I was like, oh, we probably aren't going to we aren't going to record from here.
00:01:45.30 Stan Lemon Oh, my LinkedIn post.
00:01:49.69 Stan Lemon All right. ah So, yeah, we we got tickets through the Indiana Fever part of our um season tickets. They occasionally will say, hey, you want to go to x Y, or Z?
00:02:01.75 Stan Lemon That's happening at Gainbridge. And so we go. So the finals game, it's not a Iowa home game, but there were definitely more people from Iowa in the crowd than there were UCLA fans.
00:02:12.51 Stan Lemon But UCLA was dominant.
00:02:13.46 Jon I mean, and it's a ah easier trip from Iowa.
00:02:14.45 Stan Lemon Yeah.
00:02:18.78 Stan Lemon So I know you say that because the distance is shorter. It is a terribly boring drive. And so I would argue that if the definition of easy is, like, on my soul, hopping on a plane and flying from UCLA to Indianapolis is probably easier.
00:02:36.79 Jon This is because you're old, but when you were a college student, assuming you went to a college with a sports team that was okay um and that you actually cared about, I don't think that hopping in the car and driving six hours with a bunch of your college friends ah makes a difference.
00:02:54.49 Stan Lemon Jonathan, I'm telling you right now, there were not that many college kids at this game. this this was This is mostly adults. And I would say like alumni who now have enough money to buy a ticket to go to a game. that That's my perception of it. anyhow
00:03:11.73 Jon Do you have a ah direct flight to Southern California?
00:03:15.94 Stan Lemon To SoCal, that's a good question. I don't, I'm not sure. We have a direct flight to a few locations.
00:03:21.18 Jon Okay.
00:03:24.40 Stan Lemon I don't know. Yeah, we surely have a flight. That'd be to LA, right?
00:03:29.38 Jon It's LAX or John Wayne.
00:03:29.92 Stan Lemon We surely.
00:03:33.10 Stan Lemon Well, yeah. Do we have a direct? I don't know. I don't know, John.
00:03:35.92 Jon I have to fly through Denver when I go out there, so...
00:03:36.38 Stan Lemon So most of my recent travel to California has all been to San Francisco where we do have a direct flight from Indianapolis. So I can't speak to the others.
00:03:44.70 Jon Nice.
00:03:45.94 Stan Lemon I would imagine, like, LAX, we've got to have a direct flight. Um, I don't know. I don't know. That's a good question.
00:03:54.14 Jon Okay.
00:03:54.16 Stan Lemon What actually constitutes Southern California?
00:03:57.54 Jon I mean, like, they were playing UCLA, so I imagine that's in the LA area, right?
00:04:03.33 Stan Lemon Yeah, LA, Southern California, but I'm just sitting here thinking like how far up, because San Francisco is like smack dab in the middle. So that's not SoCal.
00:04:12.48 Jon No, that would not constitute.
00:04:13.11 Stan Lemon San Jose is probably not.
00:04:17.25 Stan Lemon Yeah, okay. I don't know. Look at the map. I just, like, I wonder how far up it goes. Because, you know, California is weird. It's crazy long, right? And so um you've got, you know, San Diego way, way, way down.
00:04:24.59 Jon Yep.
00:04:29.90 Stan Lemon Like, that's definitively SoCal, right?
00:04:32.93 Jon Yes.
00:04:33.60 Stan Lemon um And I would venture to say Long Beach, LA, fair game there. You get up to Santa Barbara? Like, is that too far north? And again, San Jose is really about halfway.
00:04:43.98 Jon I don't know. Surely we have some California listeners and they can email us at podcast at twistedlemonpod.com and let us know all about ah the regions of California.
00:04:55.78 Stan Lemon Yeah, let me know about the region. See, here's here's the thing too. let's let's just um Let's take the game back to the Midwest and let's talk about Illinois. So there's Chicago, right?
00:05:07.94 Stan Lemon And then there's Southern Illinois. And the question I have for you is, where does Southern Illinois begin?
00:05:15.48 Jon Peoria?
00:05:16.73 Stan Lemon Peoria? Oh, that's actually, okay. Maybe. I was going to say that once you get south of Joliet, that's southern Illinois.
00:05:29.67 Jon South of Juliet?
00:05:30.04 Stan Lemon That's my hot take. like like If you're in Kankakee, you are absolutely in the deep south of Illinois. Now, here's here's the other crazy thing, and this people aren't going to understand this, but if you're from Chicago, you know, right? If you go to Rockford, that's also southern Illinois.
00:05:44.31 Jon Okay, I generally would include Rockford as part of Chicago, but...
00:05:48.86 Stan Lemon no, no, no, no. I'll tell you, I'll tell you, it is, it is, it sounds weird. It sounds weird to say loud, but it is absolutely Southern Illinois.
00:06:00.79 Jon So then why is Milwaukee still Chicago?
00:06:00.83 Stan Lemon All right. And look, it's a suburb. It's different. And it's, it's,
00:06:05.24 Jon Well, is is Rockford a suburb of Chicago or is it Southern Illinois?
00:06:07.71 Stan Lemon No, no, it's, it's part of Southern Illinois.
00:06:08.54 Jon Okay.
00:06:10.27 Stan Lemon Yeah. Look, like when I was, when I was growing up, okay. If you look at the map, do you see where DeKalb is just west of Aurora?
00:06:16.06 Jon Yeah.
00:06:16.99 Stan Lemon Right.
00:06:17.16 Jon Yeah.
00:06:17.82 Stan Lemon That, that counter, like when I was growing up, that was Southern Illinois.
00:06:21.21 Jon I don't think that's true anymore, Stan.
00:06:21.47 Stan Lemon Right. No, it's not it's not. In fact, so you know that like you're stomping grounds of Elgin in that area, right?
00:06:28.76 Jon Elgin. Yeah.
00:06:30.59 Stan Lemon That was the boonies. When I was a kid, that was legitimate, the boonies.
00:06:32.64 Jon Right.
00:06:33.47 Stan Lemon like It was straight up cornfield and nothing else.
00:06:36.11 Jon Yep.
00:06:36.35 Stan Lemon Heck, most of St. Charles was cornfield when I was a kid, which makes me feel really old when I say this. But I'm just saying like the the Chicago mindset is there's Chicago and then there's Southern Illinois, right?
00:06:46.51 Stan Lemon There's no... like, there's no north central Illinois. There's no Western Illinois. There's just Southern Illinois.
00:06:53.05 Jon I think that there's probably a lot of Illinois that's considered Iowa.
00:06:57.66 Stan Lemon Oh, a thousand percent.
00:06:59.19 Jon Okay.
00:06:59.22 Stan Lemon Yeah. I mean, yeah. Come on. Look, once you get, once you get past, what is that? That's a, what's the river? Is that, um, why can't I remember this? The rock river. Once you get west of the rock river, it's basically Iowa.
00:07:11.77 Stan Lemon Right? Like that whole part, like nobody counts it.
00:07:12.92 Jon Right.
00:07:14.57 Stan Lemon There's no Bears fans there. There's Iowa Hawkeye fans, but there's no Bears fans. So there you go. Geography with Stan Lemon. I feel like I should teach a geography class. It would not be like map geography. It would just be um ah like cultural geography, right?
00:07:36.57 Jon For sure.
00:07:37.65 Stan Lemon I don't know if I ever told you this. My kids, the homeschool curriculum we use, when they deal with geography and maps, do you know what the subject's called? We do classical, like we use a classical model, right?
00:07:51.26 Jon I feel like I should, but I don't.
00:07:51.47 Stan Lemon So what do you think? You should, you absolutely should. It's debate, right?
00:07:56.63 Jon Ah.
00:07:57.83 Stan Lemon So think about it. The first time I heard it, I was like, that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. But when you think about it, right, like just zoom in on what's going on in Ukraine, right? It is fundamentally a debate over lines on a map.
00:08:11.69 Stan Lemon That's geography, right?
00:08:11.84 Jon Yeah. Yeah, there are are some lines that correspond to actual geographical elements like Lake Michigan or the Mississippi River.
00:08:13.88 Stan Lemon So,
00:08:21.50 Jon um But by and large, it's imaginary lines.
00:08:25.21 Stan Lemon It is imaginary lines. But even like, so take, you know, Michigan, right? That almost went into what? Civil War with Ohio because of the Upper Peninsula or something like that. Like it's it's bonkers, you know?
00:08:36.60 Stan Lemon But I like, this is why it's debate. I think it's, I think it's fascinating. And I am now, ah this is a new like life milestone. I'm old enough to have a globe in the house that is no longer valid. The lines on the globe are wrong.
00:08:54.71 Jon Are all the country names correct?
00:08:56.51 Stan Lemon No, they're not.
00:08:57.11 Jon Okay.
00:08:57.31 Stan Lemon And that's what I'm saying. Like, I'm that old. My globe is outdated old now, right?
00:09:02.12 Jon Right. A globe.
00:09:02.89 Stan Lemon that's I feel like that's a different generational boundary that I've crossed into. um And the globe that we have, it's it's been ah near the window long enough that it's now faded. Right? And so like there are there were blue countries and purple countries, but now they kind of blend into the ocean, which, you know, like we could make some kind of climate argument here, like the the globe has evolved with it. I don't know, but I'm just saying like the globe is wrong and I am that many years old.
00:09:30.94 Jon I feel like you need a table in that back corner that's just kind of empty behind you. um so And then you should move the globe into the office.
00:09:38.07 Stan Lemon Yeah. yes
00:09:39.51 Jon Yeah.
00:09:39.77 Stan Lemon give Give my colleagues something else to look at.
00:09:40.38 Jon ah
00:09:42.49 Stan Lemon It's funny, John, you can see my office. When I jump on Zoom at work, there are certain people who zero in on everything I've got going on and will ask me, like, if something moves, right?
00:09:55.29 Stan Lemon So like today, as you can see, the Vision Pro is out of its case on a different shelf on my bookshelf, right?
00:10:01.59 Jon Correct.
00:10:02.36 Stan Lemon That would cause a whole discussion. What was Steve using his vision pro for blah blah, blah, blah, blah. I'd have to explain it. It would be, it would be a whole thing.
00:10:10.22 Jon I think this just goes to show that no matter where you work, a lot of the office culture is the same.
00:10:16.95 Stan Lemon Do people look at what's on your desk?
00:10:20.12 Jon So I have like nothing on my desk at work, which has caused a lot of discussion. um And then generally, I have my background blurred because I have this nice collection of tobacco pipes, um which may not always fly well with other people.
00:10:34.55 Jon So.
00:10:35.16 Stan Lemon ah Uh, it has been a long time since I've been physically in an office, but there was a point in time I was in an office in Pittsburgh and we shuffled desks around and I chose to take all of this stuff on my desk home.
00:10:51.67 Stan Lemon So I'd made it like really cozy and I took it all home and everybody kind of freaked out like, Stan's quitting. So then I brought like three or four things back, um, had them there for three months, and then I took them all home again.
00:11:04.35 Stan Lemon And when I did, somebody cornered me in the elevator like, are you quitting? And I was like, I already did.
00:11:10.65 Stan Lemon So, ugh.
00:11:12.06 Jon So I had a similar experience. So we had a shakeup in the office where they moved us all around. um I had won an award, one of the core value awards that I had displayed on my desk, as well as, like, we get cards every workiversary. So I was collecting those at the desk. But then when we moved, I brought them home. Now on my desk, I have a Rubik's Cube with HubSpot logos on it that I got at one of the inbound conferences. um And my boss's son would come into the office some weekends um and would scramble it.
00:11:40.82 Stan Lemon That's cool.
00:11:46.36 Jon And I didn't actually notice he was doing it until my boss said something. So that one time he came back, he's like, oh, he didn't solve it. So now I make sure it's solved.
00:11:56.93 Stan Lemon I love it, I love it, I love it. um All right, so we got a couple of topics on the list today. Did you did you prep?
00:12:04.57 Jon ah Kind of.
00:12:05.98 Stan Lemon oh look at you. you know, it's serious then.
00:12:08.86 Jon I mean, my version of Prop and yours is probably not the same thing.
00:12:10.68 Stan Lemon you honest Do you want to start you want to start with the Apple news?
00:12:16.35 Jon Yeah, so big week in Apple. um Lots of hardware announcements. ah Some interesting, some regular upgrades. um But yeah, new MacBook Pro, new MacBook Air, new iPhone SE, new...
00:12:35.14 Stan Lemon it's not It's not called the SE, John.
00:12:36.94 Jon It's not called me the iPhone E.
00:12:37.03 Stan Lemon It's called the E. It's called the E.
00:12:39.13 Jon What does E stand for?
00:12:39.23 Stan Lemon Yeah. Extra, extra small. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know what these stand for. Apple doesn't use it. Like they throw letters out there and it doesn't actually matter.
00:12:49.79 Stan Lemon Right. Yeah.
00:12:53.43 Jon a Studio displays are one that I can't afford, but could be interesting to some people.
00:12:53.63 Stan Lemon So,
00:12:58.71 Stan Lemon says the guy who owns a Vision Pro, right?
00:13:00.96 Jon can smell such a...
00:13:00.99 Stan Lemon Just to be clear, the studio display is less than half of a Vision Pro. So we all have our priorities. You just you need to own it. um this So it's the studio display, but then I think they also did the like fancier display too, right?
00:13:18.20 Jon Yeah.
00:13:18.60 Stan Lemon I'm trying to, because there's two displays.
00:13:19.61 Jon So there's like an expensive one and then there's a stupid expensive one.
00:13:22.49 Stan Lemon Yeah, studio display and the studio display XDR. So previously there was the studio display and then there was the display XDR. The XDR one's kind of interesting because the screen actually got smaller, but it went up in resolution, I think, but definitely went up in refresh rate, which the refresh rate's the big deal, right?
00:13:40.59 Stan Lemon So ProMotion on screens of this size is is unheard of ProMotion just being like 120 Hertz, right? So it's super buttery smooth scrolling.
00:13:46.41 Jon All right.
00:13:47.74 Stan Lemon Yeah.
00:13:49.24 Jon I would love to be rendering the next Pixar movie on my display, um but I just don't do anything like that.
00:13:55.90 Stan Lemon I'll be honest with you. I still think putting the Vision Pro on and watching a movie there is the best way to watch a movie.
00:14:02.64 Jon Oh, for sure. Especially you get ah the noise cancellation on with the spatial audio. Yeah.
00:14:07.48 Stan Lemon All of it. Yeah, it's really great. And actually, I think I've said this before, but 3D movies are actually fulfilling to watch. And what I mean by fulfilling is, like,
00:14:15.99 Jon Oh, for sure. Yeah, especially the ones that are like made to be that way.
00:14:20.35 Stan Lemon Yeah, yeah. The ones that are done afterwards are just terrible. But the um it's it's incredible to me how much more value I get out of them than those stupid glasses that they make you wear at the theater.
00:14:34.11 Jon Oh, for sure.
00:14:34.87 Stan Lemon You know, but okay. So studio display, studio display XDR. I have the last generation studio display. um The camera on the last generation studio display is hot trash.
00:14:47.99 Stan Lemon And I don't know if they made it better. um I like this display because at 5K, it looks retina like my laptop display.
00:14:59.10 Stan Lemon um which is the issue I've had with a normal 4K monitor, right? Like it's it's fine. You get a great picture, but I want that full retina experience.
00:15:06.91 Jon Do you know what my external monitor is, Stan?
00:15:07.03 Stan Lemon um It's probably like 19 inch CRT, isn't it?
00:15:12.13 Jon No, not that old. You bought this one, Stan, but we won't go into too much details in case I shouldn't have it anymore.
00:15:16.43 Stan Lemon I bought that one. So that's gotta be at least 10 years old then.
00:15:18.81 Jon and Yes.
00:15:20.95 Stan Lemon Okay. Okay.
00:15:21.85 Jon An HP, I don't even know what the specs are on this thing, but I'm probably due for a monitor upgrade.
00:15:29.08 Stan Lemon I, is this the same monitor I had in my kitchen in Seymour?
00:15:33.96 Jon And Seymour?
00:15:35.16 Stan Lemon Yeah, remember I had in the kitchen, I had that.
00:15:36.70 Jon Yeah, you had it.
00:15:36.96 Stan Lemon ah
00:15:37.42 Jon It's hanging there. I don't know if it's the same one or not.
00:15:40.60 Stan Lemon Wow, John, I haven't, whatever monitor that is, I haven't had that in a very long time. um
00:15:48.06 Jon HP 2511X.
00:15:53.21 Stan Lemon The question, folks, is what year was this bought?
00:15:59.67 Jon Released around 2011. It
00:16:01.83 Stan Lemon 2011, Jonathan. right. hi Well, that's something you, you definitely could do better. My friend, um
00:16:09.72 Jon does have HDMI, so like we were at least in that.
00:16:11.77 Stan Lemon There you HDMI, which is, which has been around for at least 20 years.
00:16:13.75 Jon ah
00:16:14.89 Stan Lemon Um, for me, like, this monitor I have I think is three or four years old now. I don't remember when exactly I got it. Um, I had waited a long time for Apple to make this monitor.
00:16:26.86 Stan Lemon Like I really wanted this monitor and, um, you know, here I bought it in 22, so it's only four years old. Uh, and it's great. I love it. So I can't see myself upgrading. I am just curious to see someone do an honest review of them side by side.
00:16:44.28 Stan Lemon um And I want, the review I want, nobody ever does this, but the review I want is in non-pristine conditions. So everybody always gets this and they like, they look at it in an Apple store or whatever, or they take it to a lab that's well lit. And to me, like, I want the sun coming in through the front window and glaring on this thing.
00:17:05.64 Stan Lemon That's the, like, test case that I want to see. I want to see both of them side by side. No one's going to do that, but it's fine. It's fine. I'll get over it.
00:17:11.45 Jon Do you watch any of the MKBHD reviews?
00:17:15.77 Stan Lemon I do. so Sometimes they're good. Sometimes I'm just like, this guy is trying to fill up a quota, you know?
00:17:20.92 Jon Okay. Because I saw him in person speak at Inbound last year in San Francisco.
00:17:27.23 Stan Lemon he He seems like a cool guy.
00:17:29.06 Jon Yeah.
00:17:29.50 Stan Lemon ah his His jam is definitely that he's not an Apple sycophant, right? But I think some of his arguments are like intentionally inflammatory in a way that I find annoying as well.
00:17:33.92 Jon Right.
00:17:39.35 Stan Lemon So but that's probably part of the game.
00:17:41.59 Jon But you still like Neelai.
00:17:43.42 Stan Lemon I do like the eye. Yeah. Yeah.
00:17:45.37 Jon And Neelai has had some good episodes recently, so...
00:17:48.25 Stan Lemon He has, he has. Yeah, We could talk about that too. um So yeah the the displays, that's like one bucket of things. You mentioned the 17E. You sent me a bizarre text message.
00:18:00.59 Stan Lemon Like I thought it was truly bizarre.
00:18:02.20 Jon I know.
00:18:02.31 Stan Lemon You were like...
00:18:02.52 Jon I was unclear, apparently. But I'm just like, hey, this phone looks pretty awesome. Like, could I just get by with a cheap phone?
00:18:12.89 Stan Lemon Yeah, so you have the 17 Pro or 17 Pro Max right now?
00:18:16.67 Jon Pro. I would never buy a Macs.
00:18:17.41 Stan Lemon Pro. oh Oh, John, it's not that bad. So you have the 17 Pro.
00:18:21.70 Jon That's guy who's waffled back and forth between if he likes Macs or not.
00:18:26.46 Stan Lemon Me?
00:18:27.32 Jon you
00:18:27.64 Stan Lemon no no, no. I've always loved the Mac. I've always loved the Mac. um
00:18:30.78 Jon Did you return one once?
00:18:33.28 Stan Lemon I've returned a phone. Oh, you met we you said Macs or Mac?
00:18:37.45 Jon Max.
00:18:38.01 Stan Lemon Oh, Max. Yeah, yeah, I returned the first Max. The first Max I ever got, um I took back because it was too much of a jump. And then um ah for the 16, I went down to the normal size. And I think the 16 was just an awful phone, to be honest with you. So I might be able to get away with a...
00:18:54.36 Stan Lemon um Normal 18, I'm not sure. But the 16 was such a terrible phone, especially on the battery life, that I was like, I just got to go max. The max has been an absolute treat.
00:19:06.46 Stan Lemon There are definitely some challenges, right, with the reachability. But here's the other thing, too. My eyes are, they're they're no longer young person's eyes. And ah on the 16, before I turned it in, I had increased the font size. I was that guy.
00:19:21.53 Stan Lemon So on the max, I don't increase the font size and and it's fine. It's fine. Now granted, when I open up the Kindle app, like it's definitely the large type edition, but it's okay.
00:19:25.34 Jon All right.
00:19:30.75 Stan Lemon I can live with that. So um yeah, in fact, there's only like one more thing.
00:19:36.50 Jon What about when you read on your actual Kindle? How big is your font there?
00:19:39.45 Stan Lemon Yeah, it's pretty it's it's pretty big. I'm not going to no It's pretty big.
00:19:41.50 Jon Okay.
00:19:44.31 Stan Lemon Because I can. You know, I think that's my thing.
00:19:46.03 Jon Right.
00:19:46.33 Stan Lemon Yeah,
00:19:46.46 Jon I mean, that's like one of the ah killer features of the Kindle.
00:19:51.77 Stan Lemon and same battery and you know occasional responsiveness.
00:19:57.75 Stan Lemon Ask me how I feel about my community.
00:19:58.11 Jon Hey, when I upgraded the Paperwhite, was that just last year? It's like, wow, this can actually move.
00:20:04.62 Stan Lemon It's a huge jump from the previous one, but what I've noticed with all of the Kindles that I've had, all of the Kindles I've had, have gotten slower the longer that I've had them. And to me, that's like it's a sign, that's a sign, of a bad product group, right?
00:20:21.75 Stan Lemon Like that my my product, which has not like has no... but The core feature should not get slower over time. And the core feature being I'm going to read and turn the page.
00:20:31.65 Jon Correct.
00:20:32.35 Stan Lemon Right? that which Which it's kind of like the HomePod, right? That's a product that has regressed more and more the longer we've had it. I think the Kindle's kind of in the same same bucket. um
00:20:42.42 Jon There was no HomePod announcement, probably because there is no Siri announcement.
00:20:44.22 Stan Lemon There was no HomePod announcement. There was a lot of no Siri announcement.
00:20:46.92 Jon But...
00:20:47.74 Stan Lemon There's a lot of chatter that there would be. I think the reality is that we are not going to get a new HomePod until after the new Siri lands, which makes me wonder if we won't get it. Like, here's my hot take.
00:21:02.59 Stan Lemon ah they're going to reveal to some extent the new um c Siri probably at WWDC, right?
00:21:14.77 Stan Lemon So that's that's June, June-ish.
00:21:15.25 Jon Right.
00:21:16.89 Stan Lemon um I would venture to say the HomePods will be announced on the day that that is released. So we're talking August, September, right? um I hope to goodness sake that they do not take the new Siri and gate it behind new equipment.
00:21:34.84 Stan Lemon I would rather they give me new equipment with the old crappy Siri now and then roll out new Siri to everybody. They're not going to do that. I think it's like a margin play. I'm fairly sure it's a margin play. But man, I have such low faith in Siri right now that if I had to buy new equipment to get the new version, I think I would probably bail.
00:21:56.44 Jon OK.
00:21:57.51 Stan Lemon That's my heartache.
00:21:58.07 Jon I mean, you'll get new Siri on your phone for sure.
00:22:00.89 Stan Lemon Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's just, it's so...
00:22:03.45 Jon So at least you'd be able to like test the core of it. But like Siri on the phone is better than Siri on the HomePod minis right now.
00:22:11.35 Stan Lemon It is. It is. It absolutely is. And on the phone, you can also do that ask ChatGPT prompt, right? And then get even more juice.
00:22:18.06 Jon Right.
00:22:19.55 Stan Lemon We should talk about ChatGPT too. um So I don't know, man. I've never shied from buying Apple gear, but the HomePod has definitely given, and I love, I love the HomePod when it first came out.
00:22:33.60 Stan Lemon I mean, I really did.
00:22:33.82 Jon Oh yeah.
00:22:35.77 Stan Lemon So yeah, I've got,
00:22:35.83 Jon You bought multiples. Well, you bought the original HomePod, then you bought multiple minis.
00:22:40.28 Stan Lemon No, no, no, no, no. I never had the original HomePod.
00:22:42.33 Jon You didn't buy the original HomePod?
00:22:43.16 Stan Lemon I did not have the original HomePod. I was still in Amazon land then.
00:22:45.47 Jon We were still in Amazon land then.
00:22:48.83 Stan Lemon And it was also expensive, right? for For like a not extensible ecosystem at the time. Like it just, it wasn't, it was a good speaker. It wasn't great product, right?
00:22:59.45 Stan Lemon And I didn't want a single good speaker. I wanted a system of good speakers, which were the Sonos.
00:23:04.02 Jon Right. Right.
00:23:05.09 Stan Lemon But the Sonos now in my house are just collecting dust to be completely honest with you. because That's a company that has has also, they've they've like actively made their products worse, their app, they've actively made trash and they've lost all credibility with their customer base.
00:23:20.41 Stan Lemon You know, like, gosh, it's, you know, If you make one thing and you make it really, really good, I will buy more of it. you know And I don't need it to be a Swiss army knife.
00:23:32.70 Stan Lemon I just need it to do the one. I have tons of single purpose devices in my life, much to my chagrin, right? But here we are, here we are.
00:23:41.69 Jon That should be ah its own episode.
00:23:44.26 Stan Lemon What is sink?
00:23:44.29 Jon Single purpose things that we actually like.
00:23:47.36 Stan Lemon Ooh, hey, ah here's a hot take for you. I have gone to the old school style wine bottle opener.
00:23:56.11 Jon Really?
00:23:56.83 Stan Lemon Yeah. Yeah. The, um what is it It's just like the little flip one, right? You got the little saw on the one side and standard. Yeah, exactly. What is that called? There's a special name for it, isn't there?
00:24:07.48 Jon I think it's just a ah wine key or what waiters would use.
00:24:10.43 Stan Lemon Maybe it's called Wine King.
00:24:14.38 Stan Lemon True Brands True Tap Double Hinged Waitress Corkscrew. That's the one I bought. But yeah, it's just like the old school one, right? And I used to have a little fancy one that you pop.
00:24:24.06 Jon and it's amazing.
00:24:25.65 Stan Lemon It's great. Yeah. And I think the the saw, like that saw is fantastic, right?
00:24:31.51 Jon So that's where you tell if you got a good one or not is if it will actually cut the foil easily.
00:24:36.54 Stan Lemon Yeah. I, this one, it's good. It's not like I've watched, um, in, you know restaurants now and I can tell when they've got a really good one cause it just cuts through that foil like butter.
00:24:48.25 Stan Lemon Um, but I had had this OXO like two arm thing, which was, it was fine. Right. It was, there was nothing wrong with it.
00:24:54.36 Jon What most people will register for on their wedding registry when they want a wine opener.
00:24:59.80 Stan Lemon A thousand percent. Yep. And, ah
00:25:02.14 Jon Which is much better than the electric ones.
00:25:04.57 Stan Lemon Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Electric one seems crazy to me. I don't, I don't get that, but it has this little piece that pops out of the handle, right? And you can slide it across the top and I'll cut the foil. And, 20 years ago when I got married, it was good, but now, you know, it's probably a thousand bottles. Who knows how many bottles, how many bottles of wine do you think I've had in my 20 year marriage?
00:25:29.48 Stan Lemon Let's not talk about it.
00:25:29.59 Jon Probably a thousand.
00:25:30.79 Stan Lemon Let's not talk about it.
00:25:30.84 Jon Probably a thousand. That seems like a good number.
00:25:31.98 Stan Lemon I don't want to talk about it. It seems like a number. So after a thousand bottles, like it's not sharp, it's not doing its thing. And that's why I went down this, this path, but that's, that's a single purpose gadget that I cannot imagine like living without, you know?
00:25:45.12 Jon Yep. Agreed.
00:25:45.82 Stan Lemon So, um, okay.
00:25:46.18 Jon Speaking of wine, you're drinking wine. I'm drinking a delicious wine, which I think I've had a bottle before, and I think you've had a bottle of before.
00:25:55.35 Stan Lemon What is your, what is your bottle? Jonathan?
00:25:57.27 Jon So I have a Spanish Grenache. Does that label look familiar?
00:26:02.84 Stan Lemon I think I have one of those, how do you say Vina Altegrado.
00:26:07.05 Jon Penal Tegrado from the...
00:26:08.19 Stan Lemon Yeah.
00:26:10.13 Jon I'm going to abolish the region. Karenenia.
00:26:16.27 Stan Lemon What? Cartagena?
00:26:17.90 Jon Karenenia. It's a N-E-A. E-N-A. I don't know.
00:26:21.92 Stan Lemon Okay. All right. We'll just go with John. It'll be fine.
00:26:24.26 Jon But it's a Spanish Grenache and it's delicious.
00:26:24.82 Stan Lemon Okay.
00:26:26.18 Jon um So I'm glad I opened this one.
00:26:29.26 Stan Lemon I'm gonna see if I can find out what the name of this bottle is because I don't know, but here's the hot take for today. I ordered wine from First Leaf instead of Wall Street Journal.
00:26:40.64 Jon Ah.
00:26:42.21 Stan Lemon So I signed up and I was just like, let's just try this. Cause it's got good app ratings. It wasn't pretending to meet my needs, like Picked from Wine.com does. It was just saying like, here's some good bottles. And I would say this is the second bottle I've opened from this package.
00:27:04.86 Stan Lemon It's been pretty good. I just would love to be able to find out for you what the wine name is. It is a Spanish wine as well. I opened up a French Pinot Noir the other day that was nothing short of fantastic.
00:27:21.66 Stan Lemon But it's a Vino Tinto maybe? I'll find it, John. Say something profound while I do.
00:27:29.92 Jon I have noticed that I don't use our wine tasting app when we aren't tasting wine together, so there's probably something that we should do.
00:27:36.68 Stan Lemon I've noticed that as well, John. I've noticed, in fact, I haven't even opened it up. Bodega Regalo Senegal 2020 Vino Tinto from Spain. This is very red fruity. It's got a little tart, a wee bit of pepper, and has definitely mellowed out as we've talked.
00:27:57.04 Jon Mine is a delicious Grenache, um very much in balance. We've got some hints of strawberry, a slight oakiness, um and probably medium tannin.
00:28:09.90 Stan Lemon Medium tannin. All right, there you go, folks. um Okay, so just to zoom out a little bit here, we were were're talking about Mac stuff. We got through the displays. We talked about the 17E. You wonder if you could be a cheap phone guy. I wouldn't describe the 17E as a cheap phone, but tell me why you said that.
00:28:28.85 Jon So like early on, I went with the pro line because of the camera and because of video capabilities and all the cool things there.
00:28:40.98 Jon I don't use the video capabilities at all. um I'm curious if I would miss the camera features for the photos that I actually take.
00:28:51.22 Stan Lemon So I didn't look and see the 17, it just has the one camera, right? The pro has the three, which means you're not getting the zoom or the wide angle, right?
00:28:55.70 Jon Yep.
00:29:02.40 Jon Right.
00:29:02.96 Stan Lemon Now the the standard 17 has, I believe, is it the zoom in the normal or is it the wide angle in the normal? I can never remember this.
00:29:12.35 Jon I do not know.
00:29:13.58 Stan Lemon So it's got two of the three. I've wondered if I could do the standard 17. Um, the thing that held me back for a long time was ProMotion, to come back to that one because I mentioned that earlier.
00:29:25.83 Stan Lemon That refresh rate, I think once you get used to it, if your eye sees it, then it's really hard to go back to a display that doesn't. It's actually one of the reasons why I held on to my iPad Pro, my previous iPad Pro, as long as I did because I couldn't imagine life without the the the ProMotion on it.
00:29:39.25 Jon right.
00:29:45.08 Stan Lemon Um, but I think now if I recall right, the latest errors have promotion, ah think, uh, so I'd probably be fine. Right. That's, that's the, that's the generalist. Now on the, on the phone thing, I don't, man, I don't really use the wide angle very much.
00:30:01.96 Stan Lemon Um, and the, I do use the zoom. So I think I would need that. I don't think I could do a 17 E. I don't think so. I worry about the battery life.
00:30:13.49 Stan Lemon Henry's got the 16E and he doesn't seem to have a problem.
00:30:14.29 Jon Yeah, that's true.
00:30:18.32 Stan Lemon um
00:30:19.85 Jon Does he use his phone more than you do?
00:30:19.98 Stan Lemon Everybody complain.
00:30:22.68 Stan Lemon Ah, that's a good question. Probably, he probably does. Yeah, because he's always listening to music, man. I mean, nonstop.
00:30:29.63 Jon Yeah.
00:30:29.94 Stan Lemon Like, um Eric Church, the musician, has ranted about how music used to be a thing and now it's background noise. And I think that's kind of a naive perspective on the way people listen to music. But if anybody was a case for music being just background noise, it would probably be Henry. Yeah.
00:30:50.10 Jon I think there's probably like you run into instances where that is true. Um, restaurants or, um, things like that. And you probably have people who listen to music at work all day, um, where it becomes noise. Uh, but I don't know if that's true for like the majority of people.
00:31:09.04 Stan Lemon And like, I don't, here's here's the thing. See if this makes sense. I don't think it's bad to have music on in the background either, you know? And that's kind of the, yeah, I don't know. So it's an interesting perspective um to relegate music to just background noise, but I digress. All right.
00:31:26.20 Stan Lemon So the, I think we got a MacBook update as well, right? The M5. Um, they might, ah they might've led with that.
00:31:31.34 Jon Yep.
00:31:33.15 Stan Lemon I don't know that the M5 chip looks insane, but it's not the kind of thing...
00:31:38.42 Jon Yeah, they did the MacBook and they did the Air on Monday.
00:31:43.48 Stan Lemon Yeah. And these are, they're, I think they're fine upgrades. I don't think they're,
00:31:49.14 Jon and This is honestly the one that I would probably be most likely to ah do because I'm still on the M1 MacBook Air.
00:31:58.24 Stan Lemon Wait, wait, wait, wait. You would go to the MacBook Pro or the MacBook Air?
00:32:02.80 Jon I probably could do a MacBook Air again. I'm not doing anything intensive anymore.
00:32:07.47 Stan Lemon Okay. I will say the latest edition of the Air is very compelling, like the current gen that they've been on. um The M5 looks promising. I'm on an M2, um I think I could probably benefit from the speed boost with the kind of thing I do, but you know it is what it is.
00:32:23.10 Jon Yes, for sure.
00:32:25.20 Stan Lemon I'm not buying a MacBook though, John. I'm not buying a MacBook until the OLED comes. So that's what I've been waiting for.
00:32:30.74 Jon There go. which is.com, which was a bummer because we thought maybe.
00:32:35.52 Stan Lemon Thought maybe, but I think some of the, it it sounds to me like it's going to be its own announcement. And I wouldn't be shocked if they actually say that for WWDC because a lot of the biggest changes, the evolutions of the MacBook, in particular the MacBook Pro, have happened, right, at WWDC. So from perspective,
00:32:58.82 Stan Lemon Vantage point, if they launched a fundamentally different display technology and maybe it's OLED with the touchscreen too, right, um I think that that would happen at the big conference is my guess.
00:33:10.96 Jon Do you think that touchscreen would come to the MacBook Pro?
00:33:15.73 Stan Lemon yeah it'll come there before anywhere else
00:33:17.75 Jon You think so?
00:33:18.68 Stan Lemon I do, I do, because um think about the way that Apple's done this in the past, even like the the touch bar came to the pro first, right?
00:33:25.81 Jon Hmm.
00:33:27.48 Stan Lemon They they do experimental experimental technology um with pro use cases where production generally lower first is what it seems to me, right?
00:33:38.19 Jon Interesting. Yep.
00:33:38.87 Stan Lemon Even if you think think about the original MacBook Air, right? It was stupid expensive. It was paper thin. It was a niche product. But that was like peak experimental technology, right?
00:33:50.17 Stan Lemon So you produce less. You can charge a higher margin because it's people who are in that niche market. I think that's just how Apple does it. And then, you know, the Touch Bar thing is like the greatest coup that Apple's ever done. They put this Touch Bar into all these computers. They gathered all kinds of diagnostic data for years. Nobody used it.
00:34:11.89 Stan Lemon And it turns out that that was the foundation for Apple Silicon.
00:34:15.96 Jon Interesting.
00:34:16.92 Stan Lemon Right? Which is like mind boggling. um
00:34:19.23 Jon Right.
00:34:20.53 Stan Lemon Not Apple Silicon, but like ah the Mac the macx Silicon, the Mac chi mac mac chip.
00:34:20.95 Jon Yeah, and like the
00:34:25.33 Jon the idea of the touch bar was really cool, um but like nobody used it, and it wasn't like developers didn't really optimize for it either, um because I think that's where it really could have been powerful, is give you contextual commands, keyboard commands.
00:34:43.15 Stan Lemon Well, you know, could have been one of those things that was honestly just ahead of its time, right? um Can you imagine if like ChatGPT had access to a toolbar on your laptop all the time, right?
00:34:55.32 Stan Lemon Like it would be crazy, but all right. So the big announcement, though, was this thing called the MacBook Neo. I don't know what to make of the name choice. Neo is new, I guess, whatever.
00:35:03.54 Jon Yeah.
00:35:06.32 Stan Lemon um I wish they would have just called it the MacBook to be honest with you.
00:35:10.80 Jon Yeah.
00:35:12.41 Jon I don't know. I don't understand the name choice either. Maybe it's just a nod that we're all in the Matrix, but...
00:35:19.26 Stan Lemon There we go, there we go. Gosh, there's a throwback.
00:35:21.69 Jon Yeah,
00:35:22.91 Stan Lemon So this this laptop is interesting to me. I've wondered for a long time if they would make this move because what they did is it's it's running the A18 chip, which I believe was the what, the 16 or the 15.
00:35:34.43 Stan Lemon um
00:35:35.04 Jon yeah it's an iPhone chip.
00:35:36.41 Stan Lemon It's an iPhone chip, right? So the iPad, if if you remember the progression here, right? The iPad was running the A series chip and then at one point they're like, boom, we're going put a Mac chip in it, the M1, right? And it's not been super clear to me what like fundamentally what the architecture difference is between the A series and the M series.
00:35:54.62 Stan Lemon But they've blurred the lines between these platforms so much that you know you have a lot of interchangeability on on the apps and the runtimes and so forth. And ah I always kind of wondered, like would we would we see this spectral gradient go in the opposite direction? right So iPad can run an A series or an M series, could Mac go in the opposite direction? And that's what they did.
00:36:16.86 Stan Lemon um And they ship it with, I think, just two ah hard drive configurations, which to me, they sound like the exact hard drive configurations that are left because they've dropped the 128 across the board, right? They're the two that are left from that series when it originally came out. And then ah it's got 8 gigs of RAM, which the internet's made a whole big hubbub about. And I think it's completely overblown.
00:36:44.26 Jon I think it is too, um because we aren't trying to target the people who are trying to put technology to its limits, whether it's tech reporters or things like that.
00:36:54.30 Stan Lemon Right. Yeah, exactly. Right. And I, I look back at the iPhone and the amount of memory it has and how many, to like, think about this. So, so rewind 20 years ago, Jonathan Kohlmeyer with his windows PC sitting in the corner of a conference somewhere typing away at things.
00:37:10.81 Stan Lemon How often did you say to yourself, man, I wish I had more Ram right now.
00:37:15.10 Jon Probably a lot.
00:37:16.28 Stan Lemon All the time, John, all the time. Right. There was, there was never a enough.
00:37:20.12 Jon Like, I upgraded RAM in many, many devices, and now you can't even open it to upgrade RAM.
00:37:21.04 Stan Lemon Exactly. Exactly. Now can't even open it.
00:37:25.37 Jon Yep.
00:37:26.20 Stan Lemon That was also the quintessential upgrade, right? Like we would go and we would swap out the sticks and we'd get bigger ones. And then we'd fill it like our computers often had slots that were unused. So we'd put memory into those spare slots, stack it as as tightly as we could.
00:37:38.24 Stan Lemon um But I don't remember the last time that I've said that.
00:37:42.54 Jon Right.
00:37:43.23 Stan Lemon Yeah. It's like, I just don't think it's thing.
00:37:44.25 Jon Maybe in my work computer, but...
00:37:45.95 Stan Lemon Maybe you're work computer, right? But I, when those laptops are still generally under spec, but yeah,
00:37:47.27 Jon Right. and
00:37:52.94 Stan Lemon I've never once said it about my phone. I like, I don't even believe if I go all the way back in time to the original iPhone that I was like, oh man, Ram is the problem here. There were lots of problems, but I don't, I don't think it was brand. And, and so I kind of wonder like if we've just gotten so used to saying eight gigs, not enough that we haven't given the ah device a fair run for its money, you know?
00:38:15.80 Jon Right. Yeah. And could just be the number thing because like eight gigs with that processor is very different than gigs with a Pentium four, but.
00:38:25.72 Stan Lemon Yeah, and these are all system-on-a-chip designs, right? So they're also moving stuff on and off the RAM way faster than, you know, like anything else, right? I think it's just fundamentally a different ballgame. So I had to actually go look. I was like, how much memory does my laptop have?
00:38:42.14 Stan Lemon And turns out I got the 64-gigabyte one. So I got a little bit more. I don't think Neo will cut it for me. But um I did look at the Neo, and my initial thought was, man, that would make a great cruising laptop.
00:38:55.96 Jon I have 16 gigs, Stan, in the M1.
00:38:58.81 Stan Lemon Okay. when In my defense, when I bought this, it was specifically to make my dollar and cents builds, my iOS for my kids builds faster.
00:39:07.65 Jon Right.
00:39:10.04 Stan Lemon Right. So I don't think, yeah.
00:39:11.61 Jon Yep. I haven't been doing anything like that.
00:39:15.37 Stan Lemon And and to be honest with I'm actually probably more CPU bound these days. um Oddly enough, ay just how the cookie crumbles, but So, so Jonathan, did this laptop interest you at all in terms of like your personal life?
00:39:31.90 Jon um It doesn't. And I think that it is kind of a commentary on where my computing has gone in my personal life. um Because like if I pull out the MacBook, it's to do things like this or to write code.
00:39:51.16 Jon um Whereas a lot of my browsing, streaming has moved the iPad or the iPhone.
00:39:57.82 Stan Lemon Okay. Interesting. I think you use your iPad more than I do.
00:40:03.12 Jon That's probably true.
00:40:05.50 Stan Lemon Okay. So you get home.
00:40:06.01 Jon And I think that's because you write more code than I do
00:40:09.02 Stan Lemon It could be, although I'm doing quite a bit of code writing remotely now.
00:40:12.25 Jon Yes, we'll get to that later.
00:40:13.60 Stan Lemon Yeah. Well, we kind of already tackled.
00:40:14.78 Jon ah
00:40:15.08 Stan Lemon We already kind of touched on it, but yeah, yeah. um So that's another area where I could see the Neo being kind of clutch, right? Like, if I got the Neo maybe on the road and I've got a Mac mini at home that is stacked to the gills with RAM and processor compute and all that.
00:40:33.15 Jon Sure.
00:40:33.53 Stan Lemon um that could possibly be a direction that I go. I think the remote capabilities that I've been dabbling with are good. They're not great enough for me to completely upset my setup here, but I think that's going to get better, right?
00:40:47.36 Jon Yeah. I think that the other thing is I am very anti-external keyboards on iPads.
00:40:56.48 Stan Lemon Oh, okay. I don't even have an external keyboard on my iPad.
00:40:57.66 Jon So, yeah. Like, there's lots of people that use it and pull out the keyboard, and I don't like it at all.
00:41:06.33 Stan Lemon The most that I've ever used a keyboard with my iPad was on my last cruise, believe it or not. That was the most I've ever done, which then got me thinking about, like, I should've just brought my laptop.
00:41:16.21 Jon Right.
00:41:18.08 Stan Lemon And I, you know, now and the counterpoint to this is Mrs. Lemon loves her keyboard and her iPad and she uses all the time and she never used a Mac book when I had one for her. you know,
00:41:30.49 Stan Lemon But, you know, I don't know. I thought it was a cool, cool Mac. I love the colors. I was really excited about the colors.
00:41:35.15 Jon Colors are cool. Yep.
00:41:36.31 Stan Lemon um The citrus, like that spoke to me in a way that felt deeply personal. I don't know.
00:41:42.78 Jon I mean, yeah, it's it's throwbacks to ah like the original iMacs. And it's like Apple always does well when they start introducing cool colors.
00:41:51.90 Stan Lemon Absolutely, right? They got they got that what is it, six colors on the logo and they've used those over time and I think it's been great.
00:41:55.72 Jon Yep.
00:41:59.42 Stan Lemon I'd also like the really bright, white, crisp um form factors that they've done, right? Like the MacBook from way back when, right?
00:42:09.52 Jon Yep. I had ah one of those 13-inch ones.
00:42:11.04 Stan Lemon That was a it was a classy looking laptop. Like it was it was cool. um
00:42:16.26 Jon Yep.
00:42:17.18 Stan Lemon I got no problem with the, I don't know, are we back to aluminum or are we titanium? I can never remember. I think it's the aluminum form factor. But I also would love it if on the Pro suite, they did some of these colors, especially the metallic flavors, you know?
00:42:29.91 Jon Yep.
00:42:32.73 Jon Yeah. Yeah.
00:42:34.01 Stan Lemon It appears to see how real life comparisons shake out. This laptop is insanely cheap. I think it launched at $599, but with the ed discount, it's actually $499.
00:42:45.21 Jon Yeah.
00:42:45.50 Stan Lemon is which is a pretty big discount for the ed side, right?
00:42:49.27 Jon Mm-hmm.
00:42:49.56 Stan Lemon Like normally I think it's just like a 20% discount that they get 15 to 20%. And this is, well, I guess it says about that, isn't it? It just seems more of a jump to me.
00:43:01.53 Jon Yeah, and I think that's exactly who ah this device is for.
00:43:06.59 Stan Lemon Yeah, yeah, for sure. I mean, I think this is going to sell like gangbusters. I think we're going to see it on Apple's earnings, right? I don't want to imagine it's a big margin, but I think it's also one of those things where you're going for exposure, right?
00:43:20.16 Jon Get them into the ecosystem. Yeah.
00:43:22.72 Stan Lemon um
00:43:23.07 Jon And I mean, many of them probably have iPhones already.
00:43:26.91 Stan Lemon Yeah, I would imagine, especially in the States, right? Like that just seems to be the lay of the land. Okay, right. Let's do a couple other topics here. So you want to talk about Claude Remote Control?
00:43:37.38 Stan Lemon Because I had like complained about this.
00:43:38.30 Jon We can. have not tried it, um but you got it working.
00:43:42.100 Stan Lemon I finally got it working. I tried it and it was kind of cool. I actually found myself, um, feeling more comfortable walking away. So Saturday morning, I used it extensively.
00:43:58.36 Stan Lemon I basically had to drive halfway across the state to a track tournament. And I kicked off a bunch of AI stuff and then I left. And I checked from the phone and was able to, like, continue the prompt. Now, every session I've had thus far has dropped, like hard dropped, a couple of hours in.
00:44:19.39 Stan Lemon Right. And that's, that's been the annoying part to me is that whatever connection management they've got going, it's not good enough for me to actually spend the whole day away from the computer. And there's no way for me to like tell the computer, Hey, wake up, reinitiate this, which is really what I need.
00:44:34.94 Stan Lemon um
00:44:35.19 Jon Yep.
00:44:36.28 Stan Lemon But it's pretty cool. Like, it's one of those things that is materially beneficial for me as a Swift developer. And I think this is where we come back to the Big Ten championship game that I was at today. Cause I posted on LinkedIn, here's, yeah, I'm writing code sitting at the Big Ten championship. And I think I took a picture of the court, right?
00:44:56.67 Stan Lemon Yeah, so basically what happened was it was halftime and I opened up my phone to see what Claude had been up to, and lo and behold it had asked me a question. And so I responded and hit submit and was off to the races and continued. And then because I was doing so terribly during the third quarter, I started to just glance on my phone, approve a couple of script runs and all that, and got home and it had done a bunch of work for me, which was pretty cool, right? Like that's exactly what I want to have happen in 2026 with the robots.
00:45:30.97 Stan Lemon um So I think there's promise here. I would really, really love for Codex to do this because, as much as I appreciate Claude for really anything but Swift,
00:45:48.32 Stan Lemon It does some stupid stuff with Swift, especially like big backend refactoring. It's just not as, um I don't trust it as much. I don't trust the output that's coming. And GPT released this 5.4 model um this last week, which have you, have you tried this at all?
00:46:08.41 Jon Not for anything of substance, but...
00:46:10.08 Stan Lemon Okay. So 5.4. And then I don't know if this fast mode was new too, but let me read you what this says. Let me see if I can turn off fast mode in order to be able to tell you.
00:46:24.39 Stan Lemon Uh, speed. So there's a standard in fast mode for the speed and, and it had a really cool prompt when I did this and now I can't get it to come back. Oh, here we go. Based on your work last week across 13 threads fast could have saved about three hours, 12 minutes, but it uses two times as much.
00:46:43.42 Jon Interesting.
00:46:43.64 Stan Lemon So here's, what's interesting. I decided to enable it and I tried it and it is like heck of a lot faster.
00:46:49.28 Jon All
00:46:52.44 Stan Lemon Now, 2x usage is nothing to joke about, right? Like that's a lot. But it burned through a plan that I had, some code planning that I'd done, right?
00:46:57.74 Jon right.
00:47:04.57 Stan Lemon in a significantly faster amount of time, is what I mean. um So kind of a cool emergence, but they've been raving about 5.4. They did some more Excel examples, which was pretty cool.
00:47:19.87 Jon Nice.
00:47:20.06 Stan Lemon Just like really rich spreadsheets. I kind of wonder,
00:47:22.33 Jon I really need to dig into some of the stuff for my work.
00:47:25.05 Stan Lemon Well, and here's what I've been thinking about as of late. So right now, I've seen a whole bunch of people on LinkedIn, Threads, um and Instagram for that matter, talk about using Claude Cowork, which is like the desktop app. You put in a folder, like go do stuff with your files, doing all their taxes that way.
00:47:46.30 Stan Lemon Right?
00:47:46.46 Jon Interesting.
00:47:47.20 Stan Lemon Yeah. Interesting. Now, I know a guy who did taxes last year using deep thinking on ChatGPT. I think that was a little bit of a risky gambit, but he's not in jail yet. So probably it was okay. um I'm curious, like, I'm paying someone to do my taxes again this year and I have no regrets there, but I'm kind of curious actually to give Claude or GPT the exact same files that my accountant got and just say, hey, give this a whirl and see what you come up with. Right?
00:48:14.63 Jon There you go.
00:48:15.71 Stan Lemon So I'm going to do that experiment once I get some credits back. Cause I'm, I've burned through so many tokens. I'm a,
00:48:21.28 Jon The real question is, when do you actually have to upgrade to the highest tier?
00:48:25.72 Stan Lemon Man, for me, it's just trying to decide between Claude and Codex. I think I would probably do Codex, but Claude lets you jump from 20 to $100. Codex goes from 20 to 200.
00:48:35.91 Stan Lemon And that's that's a little that's a little steep for my blood um as much as I get out of it. But it is what it is.
00:48:41.90 Jon Right.
00:48:42.52 Stan Lemon um All right. Also some interesting GPT news. I just dropped, well, actually, hold on. we'll get We'll get to the the hard topic. But first, did you see this Claude memory import tool?
00:48:55.10 Jon I did.
00:48:56.28 Stan Lemon Did you try it?
00:48:57.63 Jon I have not.
00:48:58.95 Stan Lemon Oh, you got to try this. I wanna know how it goes because then this is all connected to the next thing I want to talk about.
00:49:00.94 Jon Okay.
00:49:03.68 Stan Lemon So, so Claude is capitalizing on a couple of things right now. One um is ads in ChatGPT, right? Anthropic had a Super Bowl ad that basically poked fun.
00:49:11.69 Jon Yep.
00:49:14.75 Jon And I've heard that on like podcasts now too.
00:49:17.18 Stan Lemon Yeah.
00:49:17.50 Jon um they're going They're going right at it
00:49:17.58 Stan Lemon They're all over, like they're, Right at it, not holding back at all. And then there was this whole thing with the Department of Justice, right? And the proper use or right use or good use, whatever you want to call it, of AI in in military applications, right?
00:49:32.27 Jon Yep.
00:49:32.46 Stan Lemon Which is very timely because we're we're bombing Iran right now, right?
00:49:34.60 Jon That war, yeah.
00:49:36.96 Stan Lemon um And Anthropic took a rather principled approach and they stuck to their guns on it. Oh, that's ah I guess that was a bit of a pun.
00:49:43.99 Jon That's for not a good pun.
00:49:45.47 Stan Lemon Not a good one. All right.
00:49:46.40 Jon ah
00:49:47.49 Stan Lemon Uh, but they stuck with it, right? They stuck with their principles and there are reports that there's been like a 300% uninstall rate with ChatGPT.
00:49:55.75 Jon Yep, and they timed it with this ah with this memory import.
00:49:56.51 Stan Lemon Um,
00:49:59.93 Stan Lemon They timed it with this memory import. And and so um the memory import basically lets you take all the things that ChatGPT knows about you. They give like basically Klug gives you a sample prompt. You drop it into ChatGPT. It gives you all of this information in a structured format. It's actually kind of fascinating to look at the prompt that that Anthropic has crafted.
00:50:21.66 Stan Lemon And then you import it into Claude's memory interface and it's like smooth as butter. It was actually quite great. I did it, and it seems to just work, right? Now, I've always got a token scarcity problem with Claude. So I haven't got the full run of the mill, but I will.
00:50:40.73 Stan Lemon um I think OpenAI is in a heap of trouble.
00:50:45.15 Jon Oh, yeah.
00:50:45.28 Stan Lemon Like, we're just at the tip of the iceberg. So I sent you an article from Axios during the podcast. So you didn't have a chance to read it, but it's,
00:50:54.88 Jon I did click on it and I don't subscribe, so I get paywalled. Oh,
00:50:58.84 Stan Lemon Okay, well, you don't have to actually pay in order to read this, you just have to sign up. So the article's entitled, OpenAI Delays ChatGPT, quote, adult mode, right?
00:51:04.85 Jon okay.
00:51:10.68 Stan Lemon So I'll just read this a little bit. So OpenAI said on Friday it again delayed its adult mode for ChatGPT as it focuses on personalization and other priorities. Probably smart, ChatGPT. All right. But the company had said in December it was moving the launch to the first quarter of this year. So this is something that Sam Altman teased back in October. They moved it to December.
00:51:29.98 Stan Lemon And they are apparently continued, look like continue to be committed to developing in an adult mode. The biggest blocker is that their age prediction and protections for younger users.
00:51:46.16 Jon OK.
00:51:46.68 Stan Lemon All right. So here's the deal. They haven't really spelled out what kind of content. You can imagine that it's going to be images because ChatGPT has sunk a lot into image generation. They have the Sora platform, which allows video generation, right?
00:51:59.76 Jon There you go. Nope.
00:52:01.40 Stan Lemon And then there's all the text stuff, which could absolutely be turned into all kinds of
00:52:04.24 Jon Yep.
00:52:08.28 Stan Lemon interesting things, we'll just say, right? So you got three buckets, video, image, and text that ChatGPT could play in. And whereas most of the AI game thus far has been like, we're not going to do that.
00:52:21.49 Stan Lemon ChatGPT or OpenAI has said, we're going to do it and we're going to do it eventually.
00:52:21.57 Jon Yep.
00:52:25.30 Stan Lemon They keep moving it out, right? But they're not saying age verification. They're saying age prediction and protection for younger users. That's how they're phrasing it.
00:52:35.06 Jon Yep.
00:52:35.58 Stan Lemon which sounds sus to me, right?
00:52:37.30 Jon Yep.
00:52:37.50 Stan Lemon And here's here's what I was thinking about, right? So you remember what happened with Tumblr?
00:52:43.42 Jon They got acquired by Automatic.
00:52:46.10 Stan Lemon Eventually did, right? But the life cycle was they were the the open web. I'm using my finger quotes here. Like anybody could post anything. And there were all kinds of ah Tumblr, like porn, porn Tumblrs, right?
00:52:59.96 Stan Lemon All over, right?
00:53:00.32 Jon Yep.
00:53:01.36 Stan Lemon And eventually Yahoo scoops them up because Yahoo scooped up everybody for a minute. And Yahoo was like, yeah, we don't want to be in that game. It's too much trouble, right? Because to do it at that level, to do porn at that level, right, they're a publicly traded company.
00:53:15.42 Stan Lemon the like The regulatory friction is non-trivial. So Yahoo starts to tamp down that. Then your guy, the WordPress dude, who's just a hot bucket of trouble, right?
00:53:25.95 Stan Lemon a When I think about WordPress and HubSpot, I'm sad.
00:53:27.42 Jon Matt Mullenwyck. Matt Mullenwyck.
00:53:30.78 Stan Lemon Yeah. So he's like, we're going to return Tumblr to its roots. And so, you know, again, it's all over there. Now, the interesting thing about this is, um there's plenty of Tumblrs that are just blogs that are fine content. There's a lot of creative content on there that has nothing to do with adult content.
00:53:48.51 Stan Lemon But um increasingly, what I have noticed is various ad block and DNS block and you know other child protection applications and systems outright block Tumblr.
00:54:03.26 Jon All of Tumblr.
00:54:03.49 Stan Lemon across the board.
00:54:03.86 Jon Interesting.
00:54:04.54 Stan Lemon Because you can't distinguish it, right?
00:54:04.54 Jon Okay. Yep.
00:54:05.54 Stan Lemon You can't distinguish between, from from an ad block perspective, the difference between Pornhub and Tumblr, like you you can't make that distinction.
00:54:06.09 Jon All
00:54:13.63 Stan Lemon So they just block them wholesale, right? Which, you know Reddit has been dancing this line for years, not allowing down this path to the same extent for the same reason, right?
00:54:25.18 Stan Lemon They don't want to be ad blocked.
00:54:25.72 Jon right.
00:54:26.66 Stan Lemon And and and I'm saying ad blocked, but it's like you know the whole category of sites just straight up block. So here's here's the exercise I've been playing with my head.
00:54:31.88 Jon Yep.
00:54:34.37 Stan Lemon If ChatGPT decides to do adult mode, how do the content blocking and moderation systems of the internet decide if that goes into the porn category or the productivity category?
00:54:47.96 Jon Right.
00:54:49.37 Stan Lemon I don't think you can distinguish it, right? And so what you're going to find is that ChatGPT is classified by, you know, I use NextDNS, but let's just pick OpenDNS, the big one, right? They've got filters, content filters, a bunch of schools use OpenDNS.
00:55:09.37 Stan Lemon They're just going to stick ChatGPT over there in with OnlyFans and be blocked.
00:55:13.69 Jon Right.
00:55:14.30 Stan Lemon Right. And, and like, ah the question is how much of Sam Altman's business can he ruin in the course of doing this? Schools are already struggling with whether or not ChatGPT is an acceptable tool.
00:55:25.44 Stan Lemon This, this will like, me yeah, push it over the edge.
00:55:26.18 Jon This push is over the edge. Yep.
00:55:27.99 Stan Lemon Right. um And, and I'm sorry, like, I don't think anyone is going to trust ChatGPT to be able to decide, is this a 13-year-old or a 33-year-old?
00:55:38.05 Jon Right.
00:55:38.62 Stan Lemon And I don't think we should either, to be completely frank.
00:55:40.13 Jon Right. that They have no business being the arbiter in that space.
00:55:44.80 Stan Lemon Yeah. And, you know, Apple started to do some age verification stuff, which is interesting, right? In its own right. But the question becomes, is that ever going to be solid enough to move forward?
00:55:59.17 Stan Lemon And.
00:55:59.57 Jon Right, well, you think about like when we started signing up for social media platforms, it's like you have to be 16 years old or whatever, and then we just changed the birth date on the sign-up form.
00:56:05.64 Stan Lemon Oh, there were no age restrictions.
00:56:10.91 Stan Lemon We just changed the birthday. Now, some places are using IDs. Some places are using facial recognition scan, but I haven't seen anything yet that will, like ah some of the facial recognition stuff I've seen is like it you scan it. So you store like I am this person. And then every time you go to do the thing, you rescan, right?
00:56:29.44 Stan Lemon Um, now that said, it's been a long time since I've been carded, right, for alcohol, but I was carded clear into my early thirties back before my beard got gray. Right. And actually, I would bet you right now, if I have a fresh haircut, cause you know, when I have a fresh haircut, you can see the gray on the side. If I have a fresh haircut and I were to shave off my beard, I bet you I get carded at the Kroger right now.
00:56:53.15 Jon Properly.
00:56:53.25 Stan Lemon Right. So that makes me wonder, like, is facial recognition going to be able to handle clean-shaven Stan? I don't think so. You know, maybe I'm giving myself too much credit. This is such a slippery slope, and it's funny to me that Axios published this, um,
00:57:13.37 Stan Lemon Like all that's going on, right? So you had the October, you had the December announcement, and then there must've been something that prompted them. Oh, is this last Friday? That's what it was. So it was last Friday.
00:57:27.13 Stan Lemon Basically they said they're delaying it again, right? And Claude's already having a moment. What do you think, John? Will you drop ChatGPT if they enable adult mode?
00:57:39.100 Jon I think that probably.
00:57:44.16 Stan Lemon Yeah.
00:57:44.48 Jon I think probably, but if it wasn't just that, plus the ads, plus like these morally gray things, should the tech companies really be in charge of doing these things? um Like, it erodes trust with the company, and that's what I'm big on.
00:58:04.80 Stan Lemon Now, do you think the company you work for would decide not to use ChatGPT because of adult mode?
00:58:12.32 Jon um I don't know.
00:58:16.74 Stan Lemon This is where this gets interesting to me, right? So you have all of these commercial deployments now. So what are they going to do? Are they going to say, like, ChatGPT Teams does not have adult mode? That would be the wise thing to do.
00:58:27.24 Stan Lemon Right?
00:58:27.49 Jon That would be wise and probably pretty simple.
00:58:30.43 Stan Lemon Probably pretty simple. Will ChatGPT do that? Will they vibe code that into place and will it work well enough? Right? Or will they have already rattled the trust?
00:58:36.35 Jon Right.
00:58:38.62 Stan Lemon And how many situations do you have where ChatGPT is installed on someone's computer and the IT department, because of limitations technology, cannot discern whether or not you are logged in with your personal account or the one that work has issued you?
00:58:52.07 Jon Right.
00:58:53.28 Stan Lemon Like, this is...
00:58:53.67 Jon But and and then you like step into all of the actual IT policies too that this would probably get you terminated for.
00:58:59.97 Stan Lemon Oh, yeah. I mean, yeah, in most situations. Most situations, yeah. this is um I think this is going to be interesting to see if if OpenAI comes through with it. I am going to bet you if if the dials continue to get turned up on OpenAI, they will not.
00:59:17.85 Stan Lemon I think this will peter out somewhere into the ether and go away.
00:59:21.47 Jon And I would say that's probably a win for everyone.
00:59:25.37 Stan Lemon I think it is a win for everyone too. And it just seems to me like it would be so short-sighted. This decision will impact not just the ChatGPT business, not just the corporate teams deployments, but it'll also impact all of their Codex usage too.
00:59:44.54 Stan Lemon Right. Because the Codex API is on the same domain that's going to get classified as adult content.
00:59:44.76 Jon Right.
00:59:50.94 Stan Lemon And that's gonna be a lot. And right now, OpenAI is doing some cool stuff, but they are still playing catch-up with Anthropic. And they will be continuing to play catch-up. And the last thing they need to do is undercut their business there.
01:00:05.76 Jon Right. Yeah. I mean, like a step like this puts you more in Grok territory.
01:00:10.17 Stan Lemon Absolutely. Absolutely. And nobody, nobody is using Grok seriously in the corporate world, in my opinion. I'm sure someone out there is going to be like, oh yeah, I use it.
01:00:17.26 Jon There's probably somebody that does. Yeah.
01:00:18.49 Stan Lemon Right. Yeah.
01:00:18.69 Jon But.
01:00:19.13 Stan Lemon But, but I can tell you that like, uh, the folks that I know in the technology injury industry, Grok is wholesale band, right?
01:00:27.65 Jon Yep.
01:00:27.88 Stan Lemon It's too much gray. It's also, it's also not fast enough. They've, they've spent so much time pulling down guardrails that the actual quality of the content that Grok puts out stinks.
01:00:41.50 Stan Lemon All right, last big AI news today. Claude Code has voice mode, which is really a jarring experience. You do it from the terminal.
01:00:52.20 Jon What?
01:00:53.06 Stan Lemon Yeah. So you think about the way that you talk to GPT or Claude, like from, from an app when you're asking your questions, like, you know, I've got this in the fridge whatever.
01:00:53.82 Jon kind
01:01:00.02 Jon True.
01:01:01.98 Stan Lemon They basically enabled that from the terminal. So you could describe what you want to build, and it makes sense, right?
01:01:07.97 Jon Interesting.
01:01:08.57 Stan Lemon Like I'm, I'm so much better at describing a thing in words than if I have to go and type it out. It's just, that there's there's like less latency in the transmission of bits and bytes between my head and my mouth.
01:01:13.86 Jon Right.
01:01:18.92 Stan Lemon And there are between my head and my hands. And, um
01:01:22.30 Jon That's interesting because I think I probably communicate more clearly when I write something down than if I'm just talking. I'm more disjointed and bounce all over the place. Okay.
01:01:31.46 Stan Lemon Maybe, but I actually think that's probably good for an LLM, right? You're giving it a whole bunch of additional context that isn't necessary in this conversation you and I are having, but helps the robots, right?
01:01:42.82 Jon Interesting.
01:01:43.94 Stan Lemon So anyhow, the short of it is I've tried it. It's cool. I gotta get my head around telling it how to code.
01:01:55.20 Stan Lemon Cause I've, like, I guess I've done that in my job, but not in a way where someone would turn it around in near real time for me to then review. um
01:02:06.82 Jon Does this support multi-voice conversations?
01:02:12.96 Stan Lemon Like where you're talking back and forth.
01:02:14.66 Jon Like if you and I were to sit and have a discussion about what we want to build, which I still haven't gotten back around to my idea, um but like, could we have that discussion and then have it spit something out in real time?
01:02:29.78 Stan Lemon That's a good question. I mean, maybe. I'm sure at some point we'd hit a token limit, right?
01:02:32.34 Jon interesting all right
01:02:35.46 Stan Lemon Yeah. But I mean, we've talked a little about this. One of the things that I do when I want to, like, quote unquote write a memo is I will, you know, start up a voice conversation with ChatGPT and I'll just talk at it, right?
01:02:47.28 Jon right
01:02:47.68 Stan Lemon And let it interrupt and ask me questions if it wants, but then they'll say, okay, now turn this whole dialogue into a memo, right? Into a note that I want to share somebody I've done that with emails too.
01:02:56.89 Jon I feel like there's a play here and maybe the tech's not there yet, but like if you get two of your peers and you just talk about architecture um and the direction you want to take, that could be crazy, Stan.
01:03:11.88 Stan Lemon It could be crazy. It's what you're describing is the quintessential whiteboard session, right? Without the whiteboard.
01:03:17.07 Jon Right.
01:03:18.84 Stan Lemon But the way that we talk and meander through it. the question would become, yeah, could Claude actually use that conversation go and build the thing? It'd be really cool if it could.
01:03:28.61 Jon Interesting.
01:03:29.34 Stan Lemon It'd be really cool if it could.
01:03:30.14 Jon I feel like we should try this.
01:03:31.58 Stan Lemon Yeah. Hey, I'm game. I'm game. But the you know to kind of come full circle here too, the the next iteration of this will need video, right? So I don't Same time.
01:03:44.14 Jon Well, I think that it's not just video. It's like the whole Canvas concept um where we have like, hey, here's our code base.
01:03:48.99 Stan Lemon The whole Canvas console.
01:03:52.28 Jon Here's the front end. Let's just start talking through things.
01:03:55.74 Stan Lemon And I think that's kind of what this Claude co-work stuff is starting to inch towards. That's got a long ways to go, right? But really, it's like, all right, whole ecosystem of stuff on your laptop. And again, like you look at OpenClaw, Claude, CLAWD, like that whole gamut of things had a much wider berth of access to things, for better or worse.
01:04:17.50 Stan Lemon And yeah, you know, the the power is there. The opportunity for accidents is also there. But if I'm just talking about go build something, like that's pretty low risk.
01:04:24.84 Jon Right.
01:04:27.46 Jon Yeah. And I mean, you like put it in a sandbox. Um, great, but like, we've been struggling with these problems since the dawn of the internet.
01:04:32.68 Stan Lemon Yeah.
01:04:36.32 Jon So
01:04:36.42 Stan Lemon Since the dawn of the internet. ye Yep, yep. right, Jonathan, I think that's as good a place as any to stop. And I need to refresh my wine glass, so.
01:04:44.54 Jon nice. Well, it was a tech heavy episode, so sorry, Liz. Um, we'll talk about something later next week.
01:04:51.42 Stan Lemon we What should we, what's a Liz friendly topic? Like what's, what's one that we should dial in just for Liz?
01:04:57.76 Jon I don't know. We should ask her.
01:04:59.84 Stan Lemon All right. Well, this will be the test. Liz, if you're still listening, write to us and tell us podcast at twistoflemonpod.com. Excuse me. Tell us what you want us to talk about.
01:05:08.34 Jon Podcast at twistoflemonpod.com. Yeah.
01:05:10.54 Stan Lemon Yeah. All right.
01:05:11.14 Jon That goes for anyone else too.
01:05:12.51 Stan Lemon Yeah. Anyone else? we We read all of your emails, including the automated ones that we get every three days now with the exact same form form letter, about 186 episodes. Right.
01:05:19.90 Jon Do you forward those manually to me or am I just in, like, a rule?
01:05:23.07 Stan Lemon I do. Yeah. And I don't forward them all.
01:05:24.42 Jon Okay.
01:05:25.51 Stan Lemon I've stopped, like I've stopped forwarding them because there's so many of them now.
01:05:25.74 Jon yeah
01:05:28.80 Stan Lemon the thing that
01:05:29.06 Jon hey you can grow your audience.
01:05:30.82 Stan Lemon oh The thing that cracks me up, John, is they've got the same number. We've released episodes and it's still got the same number. It was 186 episodes. And if I recall right,
01:05:38.94 Jon We got enrolled in the sequence at what? Episode 186. Okay. Sure.
01:05:41.74 Stan Lemon Yeah, this is this is one a this is actually 186, but they took all of the ones that we released and they like the teaser episode, the bonus episodes, and they just counted them, which I'm like, all right, that's cute, but that's not actually, like that's not right. So, you know, yeah.
01:05:58.38 Jon nice
01:05:58.48 Stan Lemon All right.
01:05:59.14 Jon All right. Until next time, have a great week.
01:06:00.78 Stan Lemon Until next time, Jonathan, we'll see you